Figure competition evolution?

[genex]

Hey kids, what's everyone think about how figure is right now?

In the US, they are trying to soften the girls while in Canada just this weekend they were going for the hard big girls. I don't know if Canada is going to change, but obviously they are moving softer in the US.

What do you all athletes think about this? I hear there may be an announcement made in NYC at the Team U about changes but we'll see what happens...

[gymdiva1222]

I don't know but I wish they'd pick something and stick to it...I hate seeing girls who I know have worked hard and have excellent physiques not get rewarded b/c the judges think there's one too many striations in their quads, or not enough striations in their quads the next show...it's got to be frustrating as a competitor to never know from one show to the next...

[Rensgirl]

It's really hard as a competitor to dial in when you don't know what they want. A competitor could place 2nd one week and last the very next. We need set criteria or competitors will get discouraged and possibly leave the association. I'm looking forward to some guidance from the IFBB/NPC/CBBF/OPA.

[Morningstar]

It does make it hard to figure out just what the judges a looking for from one show to another. I guess it's like any other sport, now we must devise a game plan. This is the reason I have something very special planned for the USA's this year. I've come up with an alternate game plan, let's see what happens! I have a feeling that many more women will follow.

I don't know but I wish they'd pick something and stick to it...I hate seeing girls who I know have worked hard and have excellent physiques not get rewarded b/c the judges think there's one too many striations in their quads, or not enough striations in their quads the next show...it's got to be frustrating as a competitor to never know from one show to the next...

[Halo]

Frustrating!

[Brandi Burns]

It will be interesting to see how the girls do on the pro circut.

[gymdiva1222]

It does make it hard to figure out just what the judges a looking for from one show to another. I guess it's like any other sport, now we must devise a game plan. This is the reason I have something very special planned for the USA's this year. I've come up with an alternate game plan, let's see what happens! I have a feeling that many more women will follow.


well you certainly have my interest piqued! :headscrat

[gymdiva1222]

It will be interesting to see how the girls do on the pro circut.


yeah I thought about that, too...I know I read on here that Devana will be retiring very soon but will the likes of Jenny Lynn and Amber Littlejohn suddenly be placed low b/c they have the capped shoulders and wide lats? :stupid:

[Becky]

I am anxious to see if anything is said at Team U as well. I have been asking my trainer and he hasn't said much to me about what he knows!!

This year, it seems like I have been rewarded for my shape which includes capped shoulders and flared lats but I have suffered because I am not big enough yet, which seems to go against the pending changes. It is true that they judges don't like it when I get too lean but they don't seem to mind my shape as long as I stay full!

Personally, I like the harder, more muscular look. I think they should make revisions to keep the competitors feminine and such but by going to far and limiting muscularity and shape, they turn it into a bikini contest of sorts (not that there is anything wrong with that, but there are different federations for that level of competition). I would probably BENEFIT from such guidelines, being a smaller girl myself, but I hope the pendulum doesn't swing too far in that direction. I enjoy training hard to develop my physique and I like that I have that room for improvement....

[dalberton]

It does make it hard to figure out just what the judges a looking for from one show to another. I guess it's like any other sport, now we must devise a game plan. This is the reason I have something very special planned for the USA's this year. I've come up with an alternate game plan, let's see what happens! I have a feeling that many more women will follow.
:lurker: ... ... ...

[sedone]

Nice Topic Gene,

My thoughts are coming from the perspective of a Hobbist BodyBuilder, Training Partner of a competing amateur FBB.
To look at figure, I see it in many different contexts. I see figure to still be part of bodybuilding in general.
That said bodybuilding is just that "Body-Building" and to further that idea we have to agree that astetically we see proportion and symmetry in Greek terms culturally.

It almost seems like figure competitors are being asked to only build part of their bodies and will be penalized otherwise.

Seems counterintuitive to the idea of building ones body, if we go on the symmetry assumption.

I hear and have heard many concerns about how much of this sport, BB, FBB, Fit, Fig is to a great extent in the "Judge's Hands" and I see that as hope.

A Judge can only Judge what is in front of them.

I build the body I want to build (however skewed my vision may be) and that is what I encourage my wife to do.

When the hoopla all dies down and it will, how will you feel about what you have done and how is it going to be to live with for the rest of your life.

As far as the male dominated capitalist power stucture of pay per view sports, that's a F@#kin whole other socio/political bag of worms that is way too much for a quick reply!

Athletes Unite!!!
Peace, sedone

[Eddie]

Its seems that this WNSO organization (http://www.twixpix.com/contests/FVI06/FVI06-Intro.html) knows how to do Figure the right way.

Some actual posing is involved.

[John Stutz]

Since the competition organizers / judges can't seem to produce any firm or consistent guidelines as to how figure, fitness, or bodybuilding competitors should develop their physiques, I thought I'd offer this very straightforward general rule that is easy for everyone to follow, and that will yield the highest benefits and greatest rewards:

When in doubt, ask yourself, "How would John Stutz want me to look?"

Simple enough. I think that if everyone followed this general guideline, the world would be a much better place. Don't you?

[Anne]

Well well.. everone has an own idea of ideal figure physique. So do I. And after seeing a couple of shows in this year, specially figure in Arnold, I really don't understand the placings. In my opinion, in this sports.. like figure, fitness and bb, we should not forget what this is all about: hard training with weights! I wanna see muscles, lean bodies, separation in thighs...IT IS NOT BEAUTIFUL CONTEST, IT IS FIGURE! I really loved the package Valerie Waugaman showed in Arnold.

[Morningstar]

You know what I think..... LOL!

[Eddie]

Well well.. everone has an own idea of ideal figure physique. So do I. And after seeing a couple of shows in this year, specially figure in Arnold, I really don't understand the placings. In my opinion, in this sports.. like figure, fitness and bb, we should not forget what this is all about: hard training with weights! I wanna see muscles, lean bodies, separation in thighs...IT IS NOT BEAUTIFUL CONTEST, IT IS FIGURE! I really loved the package Valerie Waugaman showed in Arnold.

WHOA . . WHOA . . WHOA . . THERE GIRL . . . :wtf:

I cringe when I read this statement. What are you talking about...:confused:

FIGURE IS BEAUTIFUL as is BODYBUILDING !!!

Just because you can actually see some noticeable muscle, does not make it any less beautiful than
seeing a Miss USA pagent which just recently took place and was broadcasted this past Monday I believe.

The difference is the ladies with muscles have bodies that are much more interesting to look at and don't quickly bore you to death like with beauty pagent competitors. I mean with them - once you done looking at the face, hair, chest, and behind, there's nothing left but a one-way trip to Snoresville.

So I'm hoping you meant that Figure should not be made into a pagent.
Otherwise, you'll be offending a lot of people making comments like that one.

[Anne]

Hahha! I did not meant it that way!! Sorry, I am finnish so I have some problems with language, very difficult to explain things in english.. Hell yeah girls with muscles are very beautiful, the most beautiful thing in the world!

What I meant is .. (how would I explain..:)) I just hoped, that the figure criteria will NOT go to that way(beautiful contest way).. I do wanna see muscles and good conditions on stage! NOT softer girls with no muscles!;) In my opinion the whole idea of our sports should be seen in the competitiors on stage. And the idea is: muscles and exellent condition! Thats why I do not like the idea of softer looks!

[Lynx]

Well well.. everone has an own idea of ideal figure physique. So do I. And after seeing a couple of shows in this year, specially figure in Arnold, I really don't understand the placings. In my opinion, in this sports.. like figure, fitness and bb, we should not forget what this is all about: hard training with weights! I wanna see muscles, lean bodies, separation in thighs...IT IS NOT BEAUTIFUL CONTEST, IT IS FIGURE! I really loved the package Valerie Waugaman showed in Arnold.


I thought Valerie look great as well! I was a bit confused as well a the pictures of the Arnold.

Also, I thought I heard that Canada is going to start moving towards a softer look as well.

[gymdiva1222]

Hahha! I did not meant it that way!! Sorry, I am finnish so I have some problems with language, very difficult to explain things in english.. Hell yeah girls with muscles are very beautiful, the most beautiful thing in the world!

What I meant is .. (how would I explain..:)) I just hoped, that the figure criteria will NOT go to that way(beautiful contest way).. I do wanna see muscles and good conditions on stage! Not softer girls with no muscles!;)

Eddie, as in not beauty queens like miss usa...or in bikini contests...I heard ya loud and clear Anne! bring on the muscle again! :D

[gymdiva1222]

You know what I think..... LOL!

HAHAHAHAHAHA gee, what on earth are you talking about? :headscrat

;)

[Anne]

Eddie, as in not beauty queens like miss usa...or in bikini contests...I heard ya loud and clear Anne! bring on the muscle again! :D

Did I mention about muscles? ;)

Great and interesting thread!

[Eddie]

Well ladies , I certainly appreciate the clearification . . :D

Just seems at first that Anne was taking a shot at Figure.

I definately agree, that the muscle display is where its at, and it should be televisied like it was in the good old days
before internet became prominant and the easy access webcams where all over the place.

Maybe someone can convince the Miss USA promoter Donald Trump to take a chance with Figure and see where it goes.

I wonder if you girls think that Figure should have a interview round.?

Maybe that could spice it up the show a bit huh...;)

[Morningstar]

HAHAHAHAHAHA gee, what on earth are you talking about? :headscrat

;)
The funny thing is, used the trophies that they handed out to all the figure winners as a reference. If we are going to change the rules for figure we should change the trophies too. (maybe with a softer look?) LOL. That's why I'm body building now. Don't get me wrong, I loved being a figure competitor, but I like being able to pose and show off all my hard work. :p

[dogbump]

I don't know but I wish they'd pick something and stick to it...I hate seeing girls who I know have worked hard and have excellent physiques not get rewarded b/c the judges think there's one too many striations in their quads, or not enough striations in their quads the next show...it's got to be frustrating as a competitor to never know from one show to the next...


I could not agree more. I prefer the Amber Littlejohn and Val Waugaman look. But they have to make a decision!!! I hate the NPC and Fame girls look.....well not hate but I prefer a harder more muscular look.

just say yes to avatars:) :)

[dogbump]

I wonder if you girls think that Figure should have a interview round.?

Maybe that could spice it up the show a bit huh...;)
Horrible Edster. Go suck a duck. :fitz: :rolleyes:

:)

[chris10000]

like i said before: figure is a dead end
if a girl takes training serious, she can compete max for one year in figure!
after then she will called to big.
so, what do? stop training?
a real sportsperson wants to improve.

[diggs]

Half the figure girls today are bigger than Rachel McLish was when she won the first Ms. O. From an industry standpoint, I think that's very significant.

Starting figure divisions on a parallel track to fbb was a really smart move. For the women that still want to compete but either want to take some time off from the unique rigors of bb, as well as for the women entering the industry that aren't yet ready to make the physical and emotional commitment to bb, it's a perfect solution. It's also perfect for the audience out there that's reacting badly to hardcore fbbs but are still interested in female muscle. It's fbb lite.

As figure matures, I think we are going to see a lot of women rotating to fbb and back again. I'll bet any of us could name half a dozen right off the tops of our heads. And I think that's great. It's going to broaden the appeal of the whole industry if the powers that be don't muck it up. I know some of us love figure more and some think anything less than fbb is phoning it in but to me, that's like arguing if heads is better than tails. All good.

[chris10000]

if you take alook at my thread "european amateur....."
you can find out , how figure is in other federations

if i had to prepare a figure girl with ifbb rules i wouldnt know what to do.
stop eating , stop training ?

[Eddie]

I believe that's ridiculous to think that Figure competitors don't eat or train.

Just because they don't do it to the level of bodybuilders especially big european athletes doesn't mean they do it.
It would not make since for them to even be involved in a physique sport if they didn't.

I can't understand why you continue to come on here a take cheap shots at figure athletes.
You don't know what your talking about, and your doing nothing but just embarassing yourself . . . :fitz:

[chris10000]

whats the matter with you?
you read a post from me, and you are qick to attack my girl.
didnt you read the whole thread?
i didnt criticise the girls , my critic goes to the organization who want to make a bikini contest of the figure!

i prepared figure girls in wabba italia some time ago, i know how to make them ripped...
but i really wouldnt know how to transform a trained body to be competitive in bikini contest !!!
my only solution would be stop eating , stop training

[Eddie]

First thing is - I didn't "attack your girl" so clearly something is wrong with you and your reading ability.

Second . . you didn't mention anything about an organization your critizing.

And if you were to tell anybody to stop eating and training, you would be a bad mentor who leads your clients
down a dangerous path, so it seems its a good thing that you no longer prep athletes.

So get yourself together ok pal. Try making some sense for once.

Oh and just in case James happens to read this, I am not attacking Chris.
I don't have any anger or hate towards him. I'm just calling what I see.:D

[chris10000]

something is wrong with you and your reading ability.

Second . . you didn't mention anything about an organization your critizing.

And if you were to tell anybody to stop eating and training, you would be a bad mentor who leads your clients
down a dangerous path, so it seems its a good thing that you no longer prep athletes.


yes , my girl is to small, because i give bad advise:carrot:
who said that i no longer prep athletes?
but anyway i dont have a idea how to prep for figure contests to the new rules....if i prep the girl will have some muscle and be ripped , which could give her a bad place if they judge bikini contest

[Maxt]

like i said before: figure is a dead end
if a girl takes training serious, she can compete max for one year in figure!
after then she will called to big.
so, what do? stop training?
a real sportsperson wants to improve.Dinah Al-Sabah was one of the greats of Figure. She trained at the same gym I did back when we both lived in Rockville, Maryland and I never saw too many people train harder. If there was a flaw to her training it could have been that she may have overtrained. She did just about every exercise one could do for every bodypart and she worked out for hours at a time. Of course she was going for the Olympia so she was motivated but I saw her do a week-in-week out routine that was higher volume than the high volume two-a-day split bodypart superset Arnold Schwarzenegger routine that was written about in the 1976 book "Education of a Bodybuilder" which was my first routine. The only problem with that routine was if you are in a public gym people get in the way of your supersets and you cannot monopolize the equipment unless you are training after hours or in a private gym. Yaxeni Oriquen had the same problem with her pre-Olympia training so that is why I think she changed gyms. Bottom line is at the Olympia level and judging by the examples of Dinah Al-Sabah, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Yaxeni Oriquen, the training: not the diet, the supplements, the genetics, the genders or the weights used but the TRAINING intensity is quite similar. I say this not really being an expert on Women's Figure Competition or even preferring the figure look on a woman compared to that look of a female bodybuilder whose physique aesthetic is feminine and somewhat akin to the great Cory Everson. Still I know that what Dinah Al-Sabah went through training for her Olympia was no less intense, stressful or less difficult than what she'd have needed to do for bodybuilding.

[Leighleigh]

Well, as a newbie...LOL...here is my 2 cents on this debate.

For me personally, I love to train hard and to see the benefits of my training. (Esp. on stage!! LOL!)....and I love competing, but I don't want to look like a female body builder (Please take no offense, because I think their physiques are stunning, but it just isn't for me).

At the same time, I DONT want to look like some anorexic bikini model who lifts no more than 5 pounds.

To me, this is where "Figure" should figure in. Figure competitors should not look like bodybuilders (not should they look like bikini models!!) and if one places highly in one division, they should not place as highly in the other. Rounded muscles, good definition without crazy striations and bulging veins.....that's what I would like to see win at Figure. Either way though, I do wish judges would make up their minds if they want to see bigger, harder girls or smaller and softer girls. And they really need to figure out if it's better to have a good overall shape yet less muscular hardness OR if it's better to be hard yet lack great symmetry and shape.

Just my thoughts anyways. At any rate, all the girls who walk on that stage have busted their butts to get there (Big and small---Ripped out and softer) and I give props to all of them!

[Eddie]

Well Leigh Leigh I want to say first welcome to the forum, and I do respect your opinions and personal wishes.

But I believe that Figure from a competition standpoint just causes too much back and forth
conflict of rules and standards and eventually just becomes a stalemate in confusion.

And I for one wish that the IFBB never changed BB from the way it was in the 1980's.

Because if they did leave it alone, then "figure" would not even be in exsitance.

Fitness maybe , but not figure.

Its just not a true way to display what having muscle, no matter the size or shape is all about.

I mean even regular beauty pagents have more activity going on that stage for crying out loud.:rolleyes:

[Leighleigh]

Totally 100 percent agree that if women's bodybuilding would have stayed the way it was in the 80s (omg...Rachel M!!) Figure wouldnt exist....but the truth is, to be extremely competitive at the national (or higher) level, in bodybuilding... you have to be huge. I do love the physiques of female bodybuilders, but for me personally, I'm not willing to do what it takes to look like that. (I hope no one takes this as a criticism...it is just my personal choice. There is beauty in every physique). Anyways, I just wish they'd come to some consensus on what the critera is for Figure (aside from symmetry)...LOL...it's just so freakin confusing!! LOL!



Well Leigh Leigh I want to say first welcome to the forum, and I do respect your opinions and personal wishes.

But I believe that Figure from a competition standpoint just causes too much back and forth
conflict of rules and standards and eventually just becomes a stalemate in confusion.

And I for one wish that the IFBB never changed BB from the way it was in the 1980's.

Because if they did leave it alone, then "figure" would not even be in exsitance.

Fitness maybe , but not figure.

Its just not a true way to display what having muscle, no matter the size or shape is all about.

I mean even regular beauty pagents have more activity going on that stage for crying out loud.:rolleyes:

[gymdiva1222]

Anyways, I just wish they'd come to some consensus on what the critera is for Figure (aside from symmetry)...LOL...it's just so freakin confusing!! LOL!


could not agree more...decide the physique of choice already! :banghead:

[Tre]

At any rate, all the girls who walk on that stage have busted their butts to get there (Big and small---Ripped out and softer) and I give props to all of them!
I don't.

I give props only to those who actually prepared to get onstage.

[Leighleigh]

I don't.

I give props only to those who actually prepared to get onstage.

Well, that's your opinion, but for the most part, any one of the girls is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more in shape than the general population. And my props to them for the guts it takes to get on that stage. But there is the rare case where I wonder "Who told them to do this???" But still, they've got guts.:p

[dalberton]

Rounded muscles, good definition without crazy striations and bulging veins.....that's what I would like to see win at Figure. Either way though, I do wish judges would make up their minds if they want to see bigger, harder girls or smaller and softer girls. And they really need to figure out if it's better to have a good overall shape yet less muscular hardness OR if it's better to be hard yet lack great symmetry and shape.

What would be your opinion of a mix of those criteria? How about if the judging attempted to draw a sharp line on the issue of mass, while simultaneously allowing figure athletes to compete with one another in conditioning?

That idea comes from international (NABBA/WABBA) figure competitions, where the figure competitors are distinctly smaller than bodybuilders, but almost as defined. In those organizations, figure athletes can be docked for being too big, but not for being too veiny or for having striated delts or something.

Forgot to mention: those figure competitors get to flex on stage, too. So the extra conditioning has a practical benefit of displaying the muscle shapes.

[Leighleigh]

What would be your opinion of a mix of those criteria? How about if the judging attempted to draw a sharp line on the issue of mass, while simultaneously allowing figure athletes to compete with one another in conditioning?

That idea comes from international (NABBA/WABBA) figure competitions, where the figure competitors are distinctly smaller than bodybuilders, but almost as defined. In those organizations, figure athletes can be docked for being too big, but not for being too veiny or for having striated delts or something.

Forgot to mention: those figure competitors get to flex on stage, too. So the extra conditioning has a practical benefit of displaying the muscle shapes.

I could totally go for that. There just needs to be some kind of distinction. I personally like that figure competitors can be softer, because I have a horrible time getting cut, and I do bust my butt, however I think genetics play into that somewhat.....just like my dad....LOL. Anyways, at this point, I'd just be happy if there was some sort of standard...LOL! Instead, it's like a roll of the dice every time you walk on stage.