Europa Show

[Texas]

Hi guys and gals,

I was just wondering who is going to the Europa show here in the Metroplex next month. I have never been to a show and am thinking about going, but I need to meet some people on here who will be in attendance.

Thanks,
Texas

[JTx]

Me, Me, Me!!!! :p

I've been to the show a couple of time before it became the Europa so I am looking forward to checking out it's new manifestation. Heard good things about last years show!

Plus... Dallas in August? 247 billion degrees kelvin???? Who could pass that up?!

[Mike]

It was a blast last year. The Pariso's do a wonderful job.

[Echo]

Does anyone know if the Pariso's have released a list of the confirmed Pro athletes who will be competing at the 2006 Europa?

If so, can someone please post it?

Thanks.

[Scott]

I will be there for the 1st time and the list of competitors will be announced after the entry deadline but not sure what that date is.

[Echo]

The deadline for IFBB Pro contract/entries is August 11, 2006. However, since the Europa is one of the very few Pro Women's bodybuilding events, one would assume that the Pariso's have already received a significant number of contracts for the event.

If that is true, then announcing some of the already confirmed athletes would certainly generate even more interest and excitement about this upcoming event. Of course, I may be just be a little impatient because this may very well turn out to be the most intriguing Women's bodybuilding contest of the year.

[JodieB]

I'll be there lurking around somewhere...perhaps on the Am. side of the stage. :headscrat

[bigbrother]

the EUROPA is not only a show .... it is THE FAMILY EVENT
besides the usual fitness, figure and BB there r lots of side events, wrestling, power events, armwrestling, hip hop dancing, even a climbing wall .... and its kid friendly. Lots of vendors and lots of athletes available for chatting and photos.

All by all, if u have never been to a show, just pick this 1 and u won't be disappointed.

Thanks Ed & Betty

[Jody May]

I will be there!!! It is really an awesome show. My little brother will be competing in the strongman Comp.Bill Kasmire is doing it all this year. It really is a first class show!
Jody

[Michelle Brent]

I know Gina Davis(go girl) and Dena Westerfield for sure. Marise from Europe??

[MARISE]

Yes Michelle i will be there for sure.
and i hope lots of other pro FBB ready to entertain the crowd.

C U all in a couple of weeks

kisses


Maryse Manios :sprite10: :sprite10:
:)

[edoardo]

Colette Nelson will compete too.

[Texas]

Jody M.,
I am trying to get Tiffany from Lubbock to go, but she just started a new job and is still in that 90-day newbie status. She loved meeting you in L-town, btw!
Texas

[Procarri]

As far as I know, Kim Perez will also be attending.

[jasons805]

Europa what's with the name? sounds like a show in Europe.

[fbbhubby]

Europa is a very large supplement distributor.
www.europasports.com

[LAWDOG]

Women's bodybuilding?? I didn't know that the show had women's bodybuilding. The first page of the contest flyer that we received had a picture of three male bodybuilders, two figure competitors, two powerlifters, two guys arm wrestling and some kids. No female bodybuilders.

[Amanda Dunbar]

Women's bodybuilding?? I didn't know that the show had women's bodybuilding. The first page of the contest flyer that we received had a picture of three male bodybuilders, two figure competitors, two powerlifters, two guys arm wrestling and some kids. No female bodybuilders.

LOL. typical.

Amanda

[Mavis Tozzi]

I'll be there...competing in Pro Figure...I was there last year as a spectator...don't recall it being terribly hot...but then again, I live in super humid Florida, so it probably woudn't affect me so much...the venue and host hotel are attached, so you are not out in the heat much anyway. Good luck to all competing!

[fivegrand]

I'll be there puppy-dogging around with Jodie, Jody, and Jodi.

[JodieB]

I'll be there puppy-dogging around with Jodie, Jody, and Jodi.
At least we all spell our names different. :)

Aren't you gonna be the lucky man!

I'm starting to get stoked! :banana:

[femalemusclefan]

:sprite10: Good Luck to all competitors! :sprite10:

[Wildangel]

Hi all, That was my first Pro show last year!! Its an awesome show!! I WILL be in it again this year...I know that it will be BIG this year for sure!! Looking forward to seeing some New Female pros there!
Yehaw!!
Peace
Vicki Nixon
www.vickinixon.com :banana:

[E Pariso]

Amanda...Typical is most shows do not have Pro FBB...also Typical is we did not here from a single FBB about entering our show when the poster was done...But funny enough we heard from plenty of Fitness & Figure. Most FBB do not support the Pro shows themselves, I am just about done giving back.

Go compete in 07 at the New York Pro Show or the Chalotte Pro Show...oh, that's right their gone....

Ed Pariso

[rpflex]

...also Typical is we did not here from a single FBB about entering our show when the poster was done...But funny enough we heard from plenty of Fitness & Figure. Most FBB do not support the Pro shows themselves, I am just about done giving back.
Go compete in 07 at the New York Pro Show or the Chalotte Pro Show...oh, that's right their gone....
Ed Pariso

Ed, what LawDog is pointing out and Amanda is in agreement with is the fact that your promotional materials do not feature female bodybuilders at all. Believe me, we are grateful that you and Betty are including FBB in your show and giving women the opportunity to compete and to qualify for the Olympia and the opportunity to be invited to the Arnold. It just seems odd. given that Betty is the IFBB female rep and an active competitor/promoter herself, that you choose not to include a photograph of any female bodybuilder. I imagine Bonnie Priest must feel a little slighted seeing last year's mens winner, Branch Warren on the promotional materials. Frankly, sometimes it feels like we're the unwanted stepchildren in the organization... as if you ignore us, we'll quietly go away.

I can't say with certainty that you would have heard from the female bodybuilders about entering your show when the poster was done if that poster actually featured a picture of a female bodybuilder such as Bonnie or Betty. I can only speak for myself and considering the fact that the deadline for entry is August 11th and there is a $5,000.00 fine if I can't compete for some reason, I choose to wait until the beginning of August to send in my contract. That should make sense to anyone.

Your replies to this thread and to some others shift the blame to us for not supporting the pro shows by not competing in them and your tone sounds downright angry and threatening [I am just about done giving back] and [Go compete in 07 at the New York Pro Show or the Chalotte[sic] Pro Show...oh, that's right their[sic] gone....]

If you really care about it, wouldn't it be smarter to take a more positive approach and come to this forum with words of encouragement and perhaps talk about all the great things that make your show one we should definitely participate in? Given Betty's position in the sport, this show should be a premier contest for the women, but your posters and web site fail to acknowledge it at all and that is very difficult to understand.

I am looking forward to participating and enjoying the weekend and I hope you'll take my comments in a positive light....

[hans]

Great post Robin. No one doubts that Ed and Betty have been two of the biggest supporters of fbbing and actually take a big financial risk by promoting a show. But it seems like there is a lot of misunderstanding between the promoters and the competitors, and it's good to have a thread like this where everyone can at least communicate with each other. What's worrying is, if this kind of misunderstanding is happening with a promoter that actually wants to have fbbers in their show, what must be going on with other, less supportive promoters?

When I read Ed's post, I was wondering about the same issue as Robin - the deadline for applications and the fine for dropping out. I've heard a lot of female pros talk about this - everyone knows female pros don't get rich from this sport and they simply cannot afford a $5,000 fine. Like Robin said, that should make sense to anyone. I have no idea why fitness and figure pros submitted their applications earlier - maybe because their contest prep is different, it's less of a commitment for them to compete? All I know is that for a fbber, you have to be 100% to get your prep right, especially at the pro level.

Ed: can you tell us how many fbbers are now scheduled to competed at the Europa? Are you still disappointed with the number of competitors, or is it just that everybody sent in their applications at the last possible point?

Let's keep this discussion going. Ultimately we all want the same thing - more pro shows for fbbers.

Hans

[Amanda Dunbar]

Ed, what LawDog is pointing out and Amanda is in agreement with is the fact that your promotional materials do not feature female bodybuilders at all. Believe me, we are grateful that you and Betty are including FBB in your show and giving women the opportunity to compete and to qualify for the Olympia and the opportunity to be invited to the Arnold. It just seems odd. given that Betty is the IFBB female rep and an active competitor/promoter herself, that you choose not to include a photograph of any female bodybuilder. I imagine Bonnie Priest must feel a little slighted seeing last year's mens winner, Branch Warren on the promotional materials. Frankly, sometimes it feels like we're the unwanted stepchildren in the organization... as if you ignore us, we'll quietly go away.

I can't say with certainty that you would have heard from the female bodybuilders about entering your show when the poster was done if that poster actually featured a picture of a female bodybuilder such as Bonnie or Betty. I can only speak for myself and considering the fact that the deadline for entry is August 11th and there is a $5,000.00 fine if I can't compete for some reason, I choose to wait until the beginning of August to send in my contract. That should make sense to anyone.

Your replies to this thread and to some others shift the blame to us for not supporting the pro shows by not competing in them and your tone sounds downright angry and threatening [I am just about done giving back] and [Go compete in 07 at the New York Pro Show or the Chalotte[sic] Pro Show...oh, that's right their[sic] gone....]

If you really care about it, wouldn't it be smarter to take a more positive approach and come to this forum with words of encouragement and perhaps talk about all the great things that make your show one we should definitely participate in? Given Betty's position in the sport, this show should be a premier contest for the women, but your posters and web site fail to acknowledge it at all and that is very difficult to understand.

I am looking forward to participating and enjoying the weekend and I hope you'll take my comments in a positive light....


Robin, I couldn't have said it better.

In terms of the poster, I was actually pretty surprised that Bonny wasn't on it. She has everything the IFBB is looking for, especially with being feminine and marketable, yet she wasn't on the poster?

I also absolutely understand why ANY female bodybuilder would wait to send in the contract. I think a lot of people do not realize why people wait so long to do that, so thank you Robin for clarifying the $5,000 fine for backing out of your contract when registering for the show.

I speak for myself in saying, I do not have $5,000 to just hand over to a promoter or IFBB in case I change my mind on doing a show. Money doesn't come THAT easy to me... I'm sure a lot of women, if not most, have the same respect for that much money and are nervous about the same fine.

Amanda

[E Pariso]

You are right on...I am angry...when FBB do not show up, it pisses me off. Lots of money wasted and a sport that is dying, partly becasue of lack of competitors.

Yea...I am angry, my support and lack of theirs.

Ed

[rpflex]

Now, that's better...

[extremefitness]

I will put my two cents in here, my wife is just an amatuer bodybuilder, but has anybody especially you Robin( I know you train Amanda) taken a look at the tone of Amanda Dunbars replys, she is rude and sarcastic. Not only on this one but also on the thread about the IFBB juding on womens bodybuildlng. Why do you expect positive feedback from a promoter when he is being given rudeness to start with. Amanda Dunbar needs to watch what she says. On her on own personal blog that she has on her website she is laughing at the Amateur female bodybuilders that are getting ready for the USA. She thinks it is funny how when she goes on their websites and reads there blogs and laughs at how everyone she reads thinks they are going to win. Maybe it is Amanda Dunbar who needs an attitude adjustment and be more positive and support the females competing whether it me pro or the lower levels. This is not WWF wrestling where we need to slam people. we need to support. And I totally understand Ed getting pissed because how can he be positive when he gets nothing but negative energy feed his way.

my two cents

[hans]

LOL! very cool Robin!

Hans

[BuffDiva]

I will put my two cents in here, my wife is just an amatuer bodybuilder, but has anybody especially you Robin( I know you train Amanda) taken a look at the tone of Amanda Dunbars replys, she is rude and sarcastic. Not only on this one but also on the thread about the IFBB juding on womens bodybuildlng. Why do you expect positive feedback from a promoter when he is being given rudeness to start with. Amanda Dunbar needs to watch what she says. On her on own personal blog that she has on her website she is laughing at the Amateur female bodybuilders that are getting ready for the USA. She thinks it is funny how when she goes on their websites and reads there blogs and laughs at how everyone she reads thinks they are going to win. Maybe it is Amanda Dunbar who needs an attitude adjustment and be more positive and support the females competing whether it me pro or the lower levels. This is not WWF wrestling where we need to slam people. we need to support. And I totally understand Ed getting pissed because how can he be positive when he gets nothing but negative energy feed his way.

my two cents Funny... I did not get that impression from reading her blog. When she posts 4 weeks till the USAs hehe.... I take that as she's excited and can't wait. Then when she posts its funny to read the blogs because everyone thinks they're going to win but SADLY there's only one Pro card available. I take that as just a rhetorical statement.... seems to me she doesn't mean that literally. And thinks its s h i t ty that only one Pro card is awarded. She's also a competitor so she also thought she would win her shows. You guys so quickly forget the torment she received after her win last year. It was horrible. I'm sure she's still hurting from that.

Amanda, I will say this. I know you were in pain last year from all of those comments and lost some people who you thought were your friends. You seem to have also lost your zest and love of bodybuilding and competing. Please get it back! You are now a Pro. Believe it or not people look up to you. You need to watch what you say because it can have a very negative effect on how the public will treat you. I know you don't want people booing at you while on stage.... well that could happen if you don't watch it. It won't be me because I'm a fan.! ;)

[Amanda Dunbar]

Funny... I did not get that impression from reading her blog. When she posts 4 weeks till the USAs hehe.... I take that as she's excited and can't wait. Then when she posts its funny to read the blogs because everyone thinks they're going to win but SADLY there's only one Pro card available. I take that as just a rhetorical statement.... seems to me she doesn't mean that literally. And thinks its s h i t ty that only one Pro card is awarded. She's also a competitor so she also thought she would win her shows. You guys so quickly forget the torment she received after her win last year. It was horrible. I'm sure she's still hurting from that.

Amanda, I will say this. I know you were in pain last year from all of those comments and lost some people who you thought were your friends. You seem to have also lost your zest and love of bodybuilding and competing. Please get it back! You are now a Pro. Believe it or not people look up to you. You need to watch what you say because it can have a very negative effect on how the public will treat you. I know you don't want people booing at you while on stage.... well that could happen if you don't watch it. It won't be me because I'm a fan.! ;)


Thank you


BuffDiva,

Thank you for restating what I said in my journal... because what extremefitness says, is completely not accurate. Sadly, I would love to see more pro cards given at the usa. There aren't enough as it is.... which is exactly what I said in my journal. So many women who want to win, but only one pro card!!! :( It isnt the nationals people! As you know, I compete for me and nothing else... I speak the truth on my journal, which is why I get a lot of people who read it.

Amanda

[E Pariso]

As far as more Pro cards, can we get the 75 Pro's that we do have to step on stage.
Out of 75 only maybe 8 are quailifed, so that leaves 67 and we get only a few ???

Don't blame Amanda...I think her tone has been fine. I have not been real happy I can telll you that.

Let me bring up the poster issue, which has been something I was hoping did not come up. I was not happy with the poster also. If you do not know...Corporate Sponsors in our industry do not like FBB. ( I am sure this is not new news) When they put their logo on something they get a say. We had to make one tough decision, do we get the Prize money taken away or keep the show. I think we made the right decision. The reason for having this show was to award 3 FBB a spot to go to the big show. Being on the poster is not really what the Pro Women are after. I did not like this...but I also would have gotten really beat up if we had to take a stand and then cancel the show for lack of funds. In business you always have to give up some control as more Coporate Suits get involved, but the show is still on...and that really is all that matters for the Pro's. You have heard the saying you can win the fight and lose the battle.

I might not be able to Promote the FBB the way I would like to, (which is always the story) but I still think the Women should be proud that we still are the Promoters that are willing to do what we can to get more FBB to the Olympia.

Do not be to hard on Amanda...and the truth is that Betty & I are fans of Amanda and Mimi...and maybe my disapointment of having these 2 young guns in our show is showing. From a Promoters pont of few..do you understand what we were hoping for. When the young top stars o fthe sport decide to not to walk on our stage... for a Show that is hanging on and the Pro side of the support ...it wasn't good for us or the sport of FBB.

On a positive note...if the numbers turn out better...I will raise the Prize money in 07.

Sorry I have been so pissy.

Ed Pariso

[LAWDOG]

I would certainly like to know who these "corporate sponsors" are who have such an aversion to female bodybuilding so that my fbb wife and I can be sure not to do business with them. If they would go so far as to prohibit Ed from putting a fbb on his contest poster, surely they wouldn't want any of the $6,000.00 plus that we annually spend on supplements anyway. It just doesn't make sense that a sports supplement manufacturer or distributor would actively alienate such a large part of its potential customer base (fbbs).

I trust that Europa is not one of those bigot "corporate sponsors" since they do have a female bodybuilder depicted on their website.

[hans]

Interesting insight into the relationship between sponsors and contest promoters. Obviously it isn't news that corporate sponsors aren't falling over themselves to support women's bodybuilding, but to be honest I didn't know that they explicitly tell a promoter to omit fbbers from the contest publicity. Wow. I'd like to know who they are too.

Hans

[fbbhubby]

Ed, can you share which fbb have sent in their contracts?

Also, if there are vendors who have that much antipathy for fbb, I too would like to know. I don't know how you can share that without pissing off the vendors though. I'm a retailer and support those vendors that support fbb.....and vice versa. Vendors may be persuaded to change their stance if it cuts into sales.

[E Pariso]

I would never tell...Now you know why I kept it quite. How many FBB are signed to contracts, that should tell you how wide spread it is.

Sometimes it means promoting the sport I love through the back door, I will do it. As long as they keep providing the money for the sport... that's what matters.

We can all call them out and then lose the show.

FYI... When I approach Corporate Sponsors that are not in our industry, I do not even mention Men's BB, I talk about the kids event. Sometimes I have to bring $$$ to the sport I love by wahtever means. One very large chain of supplements stores, I can't even put up a Male BB on the poster.

Again. some battles are won without a frontal attack... The Women get $$$, and a show, so we win.

Do I like it, no , will it happen again...not if this show keeps growing and then I can FLEX my muscle back without fear of losing a sponsor. I was not there in Jan of this year.

Ed Pariso

[Tre]

I can only speak for myself and considering the fact that the deadline for entry is August 11th and there is a $5,000.00 fine if I can't compete for some reason, I choose to wait until the beginning of August to send in my contract. That should make sense to anyone.
Robin -

I absolutely agree with you 100%, BUT...

Now it's time to take it to the next level by questioning why such a STUPID provision exists in the first place and questioning why none of the pros seem to care that it exists. Yes, it makes sense not to sign the entry form until as close to the deadline as possible, but it does NOT make sense that the IFBB hierarchy has the audacity to tell its members that they could be fined $5000 for *anything*, especially when you consider that the vast majority of IFBB 'pros' - male or female - will never make anywhere close to that amount in their entire competitive careers.

Promoters will argue that something must be in place to protect them from athletes who'd sign up for shows, but then not compete (for whatever reason). Ok, let's concede that point. After all, when the promoter is advertising the event, even though "subject to change" can be included on pre-show rosters, the promoter still has an obligation to his ticket-buying customers to get as many talented physiques to the stage as he can. It makes him/her look bad if half the names on the list don't show up and then future promotions are more difficult to sell.

But doesn't it make sense that any monetary fine should be proportional to the average salaries that IFBB pros take home in each separate division? That is, if a typical fine for the men is $5000, shouldn't the corresponding fine for the women be $500?

As I see it, these aren't even debatable issues - it's time to start doing things that make sense.

[Tre]

Your replies to this thread and to some others shift the blame to us for not supporting the pro shows by not competing in them and your tone sounds downright angry and threatening [I am just about done giving back] and [Go compete in 07 at the New York Pro Show or the Chalotte[sic] Pro Show...oh, that's right their[sic] gone....]

If you really care about it, wouldn't it be smarter to take a more positive approach and come to this forum with words of encouragement and perhaps talk about all the great things that make your show one we should definitely participate in? Given Betty's position in the sport, this show should be a premier contest for the women, but your posters and web site fail to acknowledge it at all and that is very difficult to understand.

I am looking forward to participating and enjoying the weekend and I hope you'll take my comments in a positive light....
I love a good debate and love the fact that you're participating in the discussion and allowing the fans to read and share their views as well.

But I absolutely have to back Ed up on this issue, because we've seen this same thing happen over and over for the last 5 years. This trend of the pro women not turning up to support what few events they had began with the 2001 Women's Extravaganza and sadly, has manifest itself almost every year since. I point also to the 2002 Southwest Pro (which is now the Europa), the 2004 Southwest Pro, and then the New York Pro and Charlotte Classic events in 2005. The turnout for the latter 3 was abysmal.

For my money, one of the most disappointing was the 2004 Southwest when you had so many women saying they were by-passing Ed & Betty's show in order to focus solely on the GNC Show of Strength. Keep in mind that the GNC is the SAME EVENT that said in 2003, "We don't want women bodybuilders on our stage, so we're not including them in the program".

If I were Ed & Betty, I'd be ticked off, too. Don't get me wrong, the 2004 GNC ended up being a very good show, but for so many women to 'say' they were going to do the Southwest that year only to do the GNC instead was just wrong.

A potential solution, of course, is to get more women into the pro ranks and the NPC has responded positively to that by adding pro cards to the Team Universe, Masters, North Americans (IFBB-labeled, but we know who runs it), and the Nationals. That's FOUR extra pro cards a year that did not exist 5 years ago. I don't think even George could complain about that. ;) I still see at least a dozen more women in the NPC who are pro-ready, including newcomer, Candy Canary, so in order to make these pro events stronger, perhaps it's time to PUSH these excellent NPC women to the next level.

It's up to them to submit their applications for pro status, however. But at the end of the day, a pro promoter willing to take the risk of including women's pro bodybuilding in his program needs to be able to count on having at *least* 20 women show up to compete.

Ed? Any thoughts on this?

[CalJoe]

I would certainly like to know who these "corporate sponsors" are who have such an aversion to female bodybuilding so that my fbb wife and I can be sure not to do business with them. If they would go so far as to prohibit Ed from putting a fbb on his contest poster, surely they wouldn't want any of the $6,000.00 plus that we annually spend on supplements anyway. It just doesn't make sense that a sports supplement manufacturer or distributor would actively alienate such a large part of its potential customer base (fbbs).

I trust that Europa is not one of those bigot "corporate sponsors" since they do have a female bodybuilder depicted on their website.
I find it impossible to believe that sponsors would pull their money from a show, because there's a female bb in the show's ad. It makes no sense at all.

[Tre]

I would certainly like to know who these "corporate sponsors" are who have such an aversion to female bodybuilding so that my fbb wife and I can be sure not to do business with them. If they would go so far as to prohibit Ed from putting a fbb on his contest poster, surely they wouldn't want any of the $6,000.00 plus that we annually spend on supplements anyway. It just doesn't make sense that a sports supplement manufacturer or distributor would actively alienate such a large part of its potential customer base (fbbs).

I trust that Europa is not one of those bigot "corporate sponsors" since they do have a female bodybuilder depicted on their website.
It's up to all female physique athletes to take a look around and recognize the sort of collective bargaining power they have with regards to the powder companies.

Last time I checked, more than 50% of the NPC membership was female...

[Tre]

I find it impossible to believe that sponsors would pull their money from a show, because there's a female bb in the show's ad. It makes no sense at all.
I occasionally hear funny things and just have to laugh.

[E Pariso]

Some need to wake up to the hard ships of Promoting this sport in general....Male & Female BB, even Fitness & Figure.

I have a energy drink Company that won't come on board because we have girls in bathing suits....Figure Women.

I have over 30 gyms that won't put up the poster because of the Male BB.

And I have 2 Sponsors that did not want to be a part of this EXPO becasue we have an event called the Hottest Mom Contest.

And some are really surprised that this happens.

It does...everytime you mention BB..male or female. There is a big "S" word that we are always fighting.

Tre...are you surprised that some still think this is breaking news ??? Maybe some are just now finding this sport, and feel that everyone should feel the way we do.
Most don't...I am actually ok with that, I like a sport that only a few can do, that is the appeal for me.

Ed

[Echo]

I can only speak for myself and considering the fact that the deadline for entry is August 11th and there is a $5,000.00 fine if I can't compete for some reason, I choose to wait until the beginning of August to send in my contract. That should make sense to anyone.


It may make even more legal/financial sense not to sign this contract at all. It seems to include a promise that the athlete will pay liquidated damages to the "organizer" if she does not appear at the contest for "whatever reason." It gives the IFBB the right to select a physician to verify that the athlete had a legitimate medical reason for not competing, but it does not specifically absolve the athlete from having to pay $5,000 in damages to the organizer, even if the reason is medically related. This contract seems to offer the athlete no specific protections for ANY situations beyond the athletes control, i.e. family emergency, medical, weather, cancelled flights, etc.

One other thing, the contract states that if the athlete has to attend an IFBB arranged medical examination the athlete has to pay for it.

[Tre]

Tre...are you surprised that some still think this is breaking news ???
:)
Maybe some are just now finding this sport, and feel that everyone should feel the way we do.
Most don't...I am actually ok with that, I like a sport that only a few can do, that is the appeal for me.
Again, I'm right with you there. I greatly enjoy the fact that I'm one of few people in the world who loves this stuff as much as I do.

[BodybuilderBeth]

It may make even more legal/financial sense not to sign this contract at all. It seems to include a promise that the athlete will pay liquidated damages to the "organizer" if she does not appear at the contest for "whatever reason." It gives the IFBB the right to select a physician to verify that the athlete had a legitimate medical reason for not competing, but it does not specifically absolve the athlete from having to pay $5,000 in damages to the organizer, even if the reason is medically related. This contract seems to offer the athlete no specific protections for ANY situations beyond the athletes control, i.e. family emergency, medical, weather, cancelled flights, etc.

One other thing, the contract states that if the athlete has to attend an IFBB arranged medical examination the athlete has to pay for it.

And does anyone know who these IFBB arranged medical doctors are in case of an emergency medical situation?

Just a thought.....

[Echo]

And does anyone know who these IFBB arranged medical doctors are in case of an emergency medical situation?

Just a thought.....

God only knows. But consider this. What if you live in State College, Pennsylvania and the IFBB orders you to attend a medical examination in Pittsburgh? Under the language of the IFBB/Europa Supershow contract the athlete would very likely find herself paying for both the medical exam and the expense of travel to the exam.

Maybe this is the real reason why the number of entries to the Europa has disappointed Ed Paraiso. Ed is a businessman. It is not unreasonable for athletes to protect their own interests, as well.

Perhaps if Ed had a good Texas attorney draw up a reasonable and fair athlete contract, instead of having Jim Manion draft it for him, he might have a motherlode of contestants at this point for his 2006 Europa Women's bodybuilding contest.

For those who would like to see the contract, here is the link: http://www.europasupershow.com/pdf/CONTRACTIFBB.pdf

[JTx]

I'm not going to get sucked into a back and forth on this but I can't believe the tone towards Ed in some of the posts in this thread.

Ed (and Betty) are part of a VERY small number of promotors putting it out there to have Pro Female Bodybuilding as part of a show. He and Betty are pouring their time, effort and resources into this show and in return they get *****ing and passive aggressive bull**** remarks about not being perfect or doing it how "you" think it should be done.

Put your own balls on the court or go home.

[Echo]

Ed (and Betty) are part of a VERY small number of promotors putting it out there to have Pro Female Bodybuilding as part of a show. He and Betty are pouring their time, effort and resources into this show and in return they get *****ing and passive aggressive bull**** remarks about not being perfect or doing it how "you" think it should be done.

Put your own balls on the court or go home.

There is no question that Ed and Betty are assuming great financial risks by offering us the Europa Supershow and providng this opportunity for athletes to compete. I believe that everyone on this forum hopes that this is a successful effort for them and everyone else involved in this event.

But facts are facts. The prize money for 1st place in the Women's division at the Europa is $3,000. The liquidated damages that the athlete must pay "the organizer" is $5,000 if she fails to compete for "whatever reason." In addition, the athlete may bear additional costs for a medical exam, as well as possible suspension(IFBB Pro Card fee up in smoke), and a possible financial penalty levied by the IFBB.

Ed and Betty are entiltled to some guarantees that athletes will appear come show time. But under the above scenario the athlete would be paying out more than the 1st place athlete would receive.

I don't believe that Ed and Betty cooked this up. I strongly suspect that this is one of several different terms and circumstances that the IFBB has imposed upon them in order for them to hold the contest(s) that they have already financially committed themselves. Stated another way, my comments are not a criticism of Ed or Betty, but are simply expressive of a suspicion that they are, instead, being held hostage by some of the circumstances.

[mark000]

I greatly appreciate Ed and Betty's work :sprite10: in building up this show, as well as Betty's magnificent, inspiring accomplishments :star: as an athlete.

Ed has expressed frustration at the low number of pro FBBs registering for this show, although 21 competed last year, by all accounts a wonderful event. I eagerly anticipate this year's show, and expect to see another tremendous field.

It appears that the disproportionate penalty for dropping out is a serious deterrent to women to enter early, especially given the size of the prize fund.

Perhaps Betty, in her capacity as Athletes' Rep, can redress this issue with the IFBB.

[rpflex]

Ed has expressed frustration at the low number of pro FBBs registering for this show, although 21 competed last year, by all accounts a wonderful event. I eagerly anticipate this year's show, and expect to see another tremendous field.


Good point, mark000. 21 competitors is a tremendous success. The only foreseeable reason the numbers might decline this year is because of the loss of the weight class divisions IMO.

[E Pariso]

It was a great success last year. In one year you can lose enough money to go ughhhh. but in 13 years of trying to build this show we have lost as much as 30K. This came out of our savings. Some asked why do you do it. Like all business's it took awhile to build up the Sponsors. And this year the Sponsors came out in big numbers. We had to take a leap of faith some years.

This show has turned into what the GNC was trying to do, but we have been doing it for 13 years, with all the Sponsors finally catching onto the EXPO, next year we are increasing the Prize money in the Fitness, Figure & Men...and possibly going to an invite like the Arnold. it is a kinda of wait and see about the Women BB. If we get 4....hard call, if we end up with 15 it will be back for sure with more $$$.
I hope the Women are just late entries...I would love to do an Invitational Pro for the FBB.

OK...Robin...where is your contract. You have the physique to win a lower show like this, or atleast get in the top 3 and go to the Olympia. Spot on conditoning like yours always gets noticed.

Ed

[Amanda Dunbar]

I cannot wait to see what Robin looks like on stage. I am so excited for her. :)

Ed,

can you tell me a bit about the gymnastics portion of your show? I am curious about it because next year I could bring my kids to compete. What levels? How many gymnasts compete per year normally? I'm very interested in it.

Amanda

[E Pariso]

We have gone to a Fit Cheerleader competiton this year. We have someone that handles this for us that is in the know of cheerleading. We do have a some cool dance studios that sing and dance. We have added so many new events this year we just did not have room this year for gymnastics. Next year have moved it to one of the largest facilities in the World, and we should be back with the Gymnastics.

Ed

Ed

[Amanda Dunbar]

OK cool. We do an out of state meet every year. I'd definitely be interested in this. Let me know if it comes about. You might be having a Georgia team competing!!! Thanks for the info.

Amadna

[Lift Studios]

Ed props to you and Betty for bringing the show together. I am very involved in the Colorado Pro show and there are many, many factors that fans and even competitors have no clue on. The poster is always an issue - every sponsor wants on there and a certain size and place and then if you put a competitor on there that isn't competing the fans complain. After being involved in helping promote a show I have newfound respect for all promoters.

Question - those of you complaining about the poster, are you even attending the show and supporting it?

Ed/Betty - I plan on being there and helping cover it for NPC NEWS. Best wishes and I look forward to seeing the show.

Isaac

[Procarri]

I think Ed and Betty are a tremendous force in the BBing industry and definantly put on an awesome show each year. I plan on attending this year to support (3) fairly new pros, Tonie Norman, Kim Perez and Gina Davis! It is the show I would love to make my pro debut as well, but for personal issues, not at this time. However, I am hoping to in 2007, God willing.

There was a time you could pick up a muscle mag and find fbbers with pictorials and workouts and even gracing the cover now and then. However, the "industry" wanted changes in the criteria, which they began to see. Then it was decided fbbers were not quite marketable anymore, too extreme? Too hard? Slowly but surely, fbbers took a backseat, even though they gave the sport what it asked for. Now the criteria is changing (less 20%??), and we are still left in the cold. What does the industry want? Harder, softer? bigger, smaller? How do you prep for something that seems to vary show to show and still leaves you bewildered. Fbbing, support is low, even within our own sport, and the sponsors? Few, if it all.

Fbbing has never been about money for me, I already knew its was a personal investment without a return. Its about competing, strength, self gratification and the fact that I love the look. I do it for me. For the love of the sport! Competing is an expensive venture and I for one can usually only afford one show a year, not to mention the tremendous health issues that could and do arise. It must be a well thought out plan and organized. Did I mention the fatalities in the sport? Kidney failure? Liver function? Heart failure? The latest loss, at Masters this past weekend.

As far as the Ms. Olympia? A dream. I dont pretend to hold a candle to the established Olympians, but just to be there, step on the stage, is plenty for me! :D

I do understand the politics involved and am deeply appreciative of Ed and Betty for their continued support for the fbbers and providing a qualifier when others have dropped it.

[BodybuilderBeth]

It was a great success last year. In one year you can lose enough money to go ughhhh. but in 13 years of trying to build this show we have lost as much as 30K. This came out of our savings. Some asked why do you do it. Like all business's it took awhile to build up the Sponsors. And this year the Sponsors came out in big numbers. We had to take a leap of faith some years.

This show has turned into what the GNC was trying to do, but we have been doing it for 13 years, with all the Sponsors finally catching onto the EXPO, next year we are increasing the Prize money in the Fitness, Figure & Men...and possibly going to an invite like the Arnold. it is a kinda of wait and see about the Women BB. If we get 4....hard call, if we end up with 15 it will be back for sure with more $$$.
I hope the Women are just late entries...I would love to do an Invitational Pro for the FBB.

OK...Robin...where is your contract. You have the physique to win a lower show like this, or atleast get in the top 3 and go to the Olympia. Spot on conditoning like yours always gets noticed.

Ed

Ed,

I am very appreciative for what you and Betty have done to support the sport. I have talked with you in person a couple years back about some thoughts I've had to help promote the sport as well. I am sure that no one really knows what goes into promoting a Pro Show until they themselves do it. I myself would love to have competed in your show this year, but due to some medical issues, I have to be patient and wait till next year for not only your show, but the Atlantic City Show as well....and who knows if that show is going to even be one. I do hope you get more entries these last couple of weeks. With only two shows to compete in as a Pro FBB, not sure what is the hold up. There are so many great Foreign Pro FBB's, it's probably too late now, but can we reach out to them more in the future? Just a thought...

I do wish you and Betty the best, but I have to tell you I was saddened to hear that you want to go invitation only. That leaves only 1 show a Pro FBB can just enter in. And we all know that one show may not even be there next year. The Arnold is so very hard and political to get an invite. What is this coming to?

Again, I wish the best and hope you and Betty can be in the green with this show like you want.

Best wishes,

Beth

[Wildangel]

YIKES!!! I dont read these forums much, but I just saw where Carri posted about the EUROPA possibly becoming a Invite only show???? Please tell me this is NOT true!! I am glad to hear that Carri will be at the Europa cheering on the New Pros!! How about me ??? Can you cheer for little ole me too?? :)) I look forward to doing the Europa again this year, it was my First Pro show last year..after winning my Pro card at the Team Universe. Please say its not true about the Invite...and Carri....it will be good to see you, wish you were gonna be up there with us!!
Vicki :banana:

[Tre]

Given the tremendous void left in women's bodybuilding by the end of the Jan Tana era, I would be saddened to see the Europa become an invitation-only event.

While I understand that invitation-only events offer the appeal of exclusivity and might therefore serve as motivation for more women to apply, at the same time, I think there needs to be a fun, fan-friendly show where women from around the world can get onto a pro stage. In addition to the intimacy of it all, the major appeal of the Jan Tana was that we always got to see the Europeans and South Americans who never got invited to the Ms. "International".

[Amanda Dunbar]

I agree Tre. 100%... we'd never see those people if it became invite only... I can't see why it would be beneficial going to invite only, especially when the goal is to bring in as many fbb's possible? But I do not know the reasons behind that, so I really can't say much about it... Only Ed/Betty would be able to explain. I'm sure they have a reason.

Amanda

[Procarri]

:woot: My bad Vicki! Definitely cheering you on again this year as well! Good luck and see you in about 5 weeks!

[E Pariso]

O come on the reason is very clear...the current format is not working for me as a Promoter. I have not made a decsion yet, I am hoping the numbers get better and then we will see.

Vicki you will be invited I assure you.

Ed

[E Pariso]

I will thell you this, if the numbers turn out OK...Betty & I WILL INCREASE THE PRIZE
MONEY...and we would not go to an Invitational on the FBB. But you have to understand we have tried this with the FBB for 4 years, with only one good year.

Whatever the reason they do not compete...lack of money, to hard to get in shape, to costly...from a Promoters point of few, the reason do not matter, don't show up and the shows go away...fact.

Everyone has a reason why they so not compete, but they still want shows...not

We do not get that from the other Women's divison's....that is why the other promoters keep adding those fitness & figure events...easier to enter, can you blame them. Promoting is about numbers.

The FBB have great reasons for not showing up, and then that gives the other
promoters great reasons to include the other Women.

We are still here to support the FBB, but it is a wait and see situation.

Ed

[Echo]

I But you have to understand we have tried this with the FBB for 4 years, with only one good year.

......Promoting is about numbers.

.....We are still here to support the FBB, but it is a wait and see situation.

Ed

If I understand you correctly, the bottom line is the number of paying spectators that a contest will draw, is that correct? If so, a Women's contest that has only 7 competitors, but draws many spectators could be financially feasible from a promotor perspective, couldn't it? If that is true I would imagine that a Women's contest with many competitors but a low spectator draw would not be financially worthwhile, would you agree?

When you said that your event had only one good year, were you referring to the financial success of the entire event or were you referring only to the Women's bodybuilding component? If the answer is the Women's bodybuilding component, how did you you measure or calculate its success considering that you are running muiltiple contests on the same day?

On an earlier post, you said that "the format" was making the event problematic. How is the "format" affecting the draw? What changes in the format need to be made to improve the draw?

I ask these questions because on the west coast we have had three pro figure events in the last eleven months and the spectator turn out did not look too impressive to me, to say the least. The San Francisco Pro Men's contest spectator turnout did not result in spectators being turned away by any means. However, in California, the greatest number of competitors and spectators seems to be generated by NPC amateur figure. Is that what you are seeing in Texas? If so, is bodybuilding, in general, in decline? If so, what can we do to turn things around?

[rpflex]

OK...Robin...where is your contract. You have the physique to win a lower show like this, or atleast get in the top 3 and go to the Olympia. Spot on conditoning like yours always gets noticed.
Ed

That's so sweet... Thanks, Ed. I'll be getting out to you very soon.

[E Pariso]

The numbers you put on stage always follows directly with ticket sales. Lots of FBB, lots of upfront VIP seats. Low turnout, sales suck.

Ed

[Tre]

We do not get that from the other Women's divison's....that is why the other promoters keep adding those fitness & figure events...easier to enter, can you blame them. Promoting is about numbers.
I don't disagree with ANYTHING in your post, but although there are presently more available pro card 'chances' for amateurs than ever before in bodybuilding, it's still a LOT easier for the figure/fitness women. A flood of 'pros' (esp in figure) makes it a piece of cake to fill those pro figure lineups.

[bigbrother]

Being european, i am well aware my point of view doesn't mean much to americans.

I just wanted to take my hat off to ED & BETTY for still giving fbb a chance.

In europe, promotors have giving up on pro fbb. Example, dutch GP in october doesn't include fbb although it is a IFBB pro event.

Conclusion:
We, europeans are happy to take a 14 hour plane trip to Arlington to compete at the EUROPA show, and although there is only 1 weight class, and we have to sign a 5000$ "no show fee" to enter, and travel expenses are very high and bla bla bla.......

We still appriciate people are sticking their neck out to give FBB a chance in the USA.

No complaining, just competing, whatever the outcome ...... having the opportiunity in participating is wonderful.

Knowing it might be the last edition is just sad.

I don't know if you, americans, are aware of this opportiunity your beautiful country offers you!!!!!!!

Just my opinion for what it is worth

"you don't know what you are missing, until it is gone" ........

[chris10000]

if you are amateur the ifbb pay all your travelcost if you going to the world championship- then as pro you have to pay all yourself ( for european athlet 2500$ ) and then you will be fined 5000$ if something happens?????? for what reason?????

[bigbrother]

correct Chris, as an amateur the national IFBB board pays for travel expenses. That is why lots of people refuse to turn pro when the card is offered. (esp in Eastern Europe)
When you accept the pro status, you accept paying for travel, unless you find a sponsor of course. (that is following the book, reality is .... well)

The 5000$ is not an issue IMO.
When you prepair for a show, it is not done overnight. It takes roughly 20 weeks of prep, so once you are engaged in the proces, only injury will stop you from being on stage. Injury is reported by a medical certificate and will release you from paying fine.

What are you waiting for ladies to enter this EUROPA show?
Perhaps gambling on doing the Atlantic City, as it is only 1 week before the Miss Olympia?
I am only guessing here.

cheers

[NPCIN]

Does someone know how many pro cards are given to female Bbers each year and how many are given to figure each year? Just curious as to what the difference is.

[Tre]

Does someone know how many pro cards are given to female Bbers each year and how many are given to figure each year? Just curious as to what the difference is.

In the U.S., there are 7 for women bodybuilders and 24 or 25 (Gene would probably have the exact number) for figure.

Despite being a much 'younger' competitive division, there are currently a lot more IFBB figure pros than bodybuilding pros.

[CalJoe]

Does someone know how many pro cards are given to female Bbers each year and how many are given to figure each year? Just curious as to what the difference is.
Well, on the bb side there's 1 card for the USA, 1 for the Team Universe, 1 for the North American, and 4 for the Nationals, so that's a total of 7. Six of the seven cards are legitimately American, because technically the NA is for US, Canadian, and Mexican competitors. On the figure side they just handed out 12 cards at the Team Universe. There's Junior Nationals, Junior USA, Nationals, The USA, Team Universe, and the North American(not sure if there is figure at the NA). Not sure, but there could be over 50 cards, perhaps as high as 60-70? Does someone know the figure total for sure? :headscrat

[rpflex]

Well, on the bb side there's 1 card for the USA, 1 for the Team Universe, 1 for the North American, and 4 for the Nationals, so that's a total of 7. :headscrat

Don't forget Master's Nationals for a total of 8.

[Tre]

My fault, I knew the number had doubled, but I forgot about N. Americans. Thanks, Robin.

[Echo]

The 5000$ is not an issue IMO.
When you prepair for a show, it is not done overnight. It takes roughly 20 weeks of prep, so once you are engaged in the proces, only injury will stop you from being on stage. Injury is reported by a medical certificate and will release you from paying fine.


Would the death or serious illness of your spouse or immediate family member stop you from being on stage? If your house or workplace was severely damaged or destroyed by fire, flood, or tornado would that stop you from competing? If your airplane trip was cancelled due to a terrorist bomb threat, could that stop you from competing? How about just cramps/muscle spasms?

This is the exact language of the 2006 IFBB Athlete Competition Contract:

"Pursuant to Article 8.8 of the IFBB Professional Rules (2005 Edition), if I sign this Contract and subsequently fail to compete, I will be fined $5,000 US Dollars and suspended for a period of time to be determined by the IFBB Professional Committee. If I claim that the failure to compete is due to medical reasons, I accept that the IFBB has the right to verify my claim by ordering me to report to a medical doctor, as selected by the IFBB at my own expense.

Pursuant to Article 8.9 of the IFBB Professional Rules (2005 Edition), if I sign this Contract and subsequently fail to compete, whether such failure occurs before the competition or during the competition, for whatever reason (including medical), I agree to reimburse the Organizer any and all expenses incurred by the Organizer on my behalf. I accept that the failure to reimburse the Organizer will result in my suspension until such time as the expenses are paid in full."

So, to summarize, the Athlete is risking the following:

1) A $5,000 fine. The language of the contract does not constitute a guarantee that the IFBB will waive the fine for a medical reason. The contract only states that the IFBB will verify a medical claim.

2) A medical examination, in the case of a medical claim, that the Athlete will pay for.

3) Liquidated damages which the Athlete shall pay to the "Organizer" if the Athlete fails to compete "for whatever reason(including medical)."

[Amanda Dunbar]

As a fbb, if you win the World Championships then you turn pro also. Colette Nelson did this... she won her class at the Team Universe (not qualifying her for pro, but a spot on the World team) then she went to Spain and won the Overall turning pro. This was the same year she won the North American. So she turned pro twice. So Worlds is another option.

Amanda

[genex]

Yeah I just had to calculate the fBB card opportunities for my Masters report and I got eight too.

[CalJoe]

Don't forget Master's Nationals for a total of 8.
Of course Robin,,,how could I forget Master's Nationals ;) .

[NPCIN]

Ok, 8 pro cards for female bbing...so how about figure pro cards? Just curious as to how many more opportunities there are for the figure athletes to turn pro? I know they are trying to build the numbers up on the pro figure scene, but when do they or will they cut back on the amount of cards being handed out to the figure athletes so we don't have an over abundance?

[Lift Studios]

Ok, 8 pro cards for female bbing...so how about figure pro cards? Just curious as to how many more opportunities there are for the figure athletes to turn pro? I know they are trying to build the numbers up on the pro figure scene, but when do they or will they cut back on the amount of cards being handed out to the figure athletes so we don't have an over abundance?Not sure on the # of pro cards for figure but there are also 4-5x as many figure competitors as female bodybuilders.

For USAs there are 190 figure competitors and 40 female bodybuilders.

[genex]

Here's what I am calculating for figure:
Jr USA = 1
Jr Nationals = 4
Team U/Fig Nats = 12
Masters = 1
USAs = 6
North Americans = 3

I think that's all of them which comes to 27 per year - am I missing any?

[bigbrother]

Would the death or serious illness of your spouse or immediate family member stop you from being on stage? If your house or workplace was severely damaged or destroyed by fire, flood, or tornado would that stop you from competing? If your airplane trip was cancelled due to a terrorist bomb threat, could that stop you from competing? How about just cramps/muscle spasms?

This is the exact language of the 2006 IFBB Athlete Competition Contract:

"Pursuant to Article 8.8 of the IFBB Professional Rules (2005 Edition), if I sign this Contract and subsequently fail to compete, I will be fined $5,000 US Dollars and suspended for a period of time to be determined by the IFBB Professional Committee. If I claim that the failure to compete is due to medical reasons, I accept that the IFBB has the right to verify my claim by ordering me to report to a medical doctor, as selected by the IFBB at my own expense.

Pursuant to Article 8.9 of the IFBB Professional Rules (2005 Edition), if I sign this Contract and subsequently fail to compete, whether such failure occurs before the competition or during the competition, for whatever reason (including medical), I agree to reimburse the Organizer any and all expenses incurred by the Organizer on my behalf. I accept that the failure to reimburse the Organizer will result in my suspension until such time as the expenses are paid in full."

So, to summarize, the Athlete is risking the following:

1) A $5,000 fine. The language of the contract does not constitute a guarantee that the IFBB will waive the fine for a medical reason. The contract only states that the IFBB will verify a medical claim.

2) A medical examination, in the case of a medical claim, that the Athlete will pay for.

3) Liquidated damages which the Athlete shall pay to the "Organizer" if the Athlete fails to compete "for whatever reason(including medical)."

Dear Echo,

all of the above is true, i read it too when i received the contract from the IFBB.
But again, waiting untill the deadline of 2 weeks prior to the show, doesn't change anything.
The risk for the athlete remains the same. And a lot can go bad in the last 15 days.

Not signing it is the only option to avoid the risk, but that means no competition.

Isn't it something the pro athletes representative should bring up at the anual meeting? Perhaps they did, and the IFBB ignored it.

So we both agree it is a tough contract to sign, but lets say i am less dramatical than you are. ;)

[Tre]

Not signing it is the only option to avoid the risk, but that means no competition.

Isn't it something the pro athletes representative should bring up at the anual meeting? Perhaps they did, and the IFBB ignored it.

Collectively, the pro performers do not have adequate legal representation.

[bigbrother]

Collectively, the pro performers do not have adequate legal representation.
Tnx for this info Tre, i thought the Pro's Female and Male had each 1 representative link between them and the IFBB board.
Then again, if the representative has no legal impact ......

Is there no lawyer in the fans who would take care of it at Pro Deo rate?

We take CV's from now on.

cheers

[CalJoe]

Here's what I am calculating for figure:
Jr USA = 1
Jr Nationals = 4
Team U/Fig Nats = 12
Masters = 1
USAs = 6
North Americans = 3

I think that's all of them which comes to 27 per year - am I missing any?
Not sure to be honest, but don't they give out more at USA and Junior Nationals?

[CalJoe]

Not sure on the # of pro cards for figure but there are also 4-5x as many figure competitors as female bodybuilders.

For USAs there are 190 figure competitors and 40 female bodybuilders.
The proliferation of pro cards has led to the increase in figure competitors. It stands to reason that if the number of pro cards went up for the women bb'ers the number of entries would go up to.

[Echo]

...Not signing it is the only option to avoid the risk, but that means no competition.


There may be another option to pursue that would result in a more fair arrangement that provides adequate protection to both the promoter and the athlete. If there is more interest from the athletes I will be happy to discuss a possible approach to get this done.

But this is a very poorly constructed contract. What I find particularly interesting is that it is a contract between the Athlete and Jim Manion(IFBB). Ed and Betty Pariso are not signatories or direct parties to the contract. This leads me to question who "the organizer" is in this contract. Are we to interpret the term "organizer" as referring to the IFBB or to the Pariso's? Moreover, why does the IFBB need more protection/compensation than the promoter? And what is the applicable law? The law of the State of Pennsylvania? Texas?

I even wonder if this contract is legally enforceable. The problem is that if Jim Manion tried to legally pursue an Athlete for breach of contract the legal fees that the Athlete might have to spend to get the matter thrown out might be as high or higher than the $5,000 fine that the contract stipulates.

On the other hand, Mr. Manion may already know that this contract provision is not enforceable in a courtroom. If so, he might just freeze the athlete out of competition with an indefinite suspension. If the athlete wants to return to IFBB competition he/she will either pay the fine or retain a lawyer to persuade/force Mr. Manion to lift the suspension and wave or reduce the fines. Either way, the athlete still incurs financial expenditures.

Once again, the Athlete Reps, led by Bob Chicherillo, are missing in action.

[CalJoe]

There may be another option to pursue that would result in a more fair arrangement that provides adequate protection to both the promoter and the athlete. If there is more interest from the athletes I will be happy to discuss a possible approach to get this done.

But this is a very poorly constructed contract. What I find particularly interesting is that it is a contract between the Athlete and Jim Manion(IFBB). Ed and Betty Pariso are not signatories or direct parties to the contract. This leads me to question who "the organizer" is in this contract. Are we to interpret the term "organizer" as referring to the IFBB or to the Pariso's? Moreover, why does the IFBB need more protection/compensation than the promoter? And what is the applicable law? The law of the State of Pennsylvania? Texas?

I even wonder if this contract is legally enforceable. The problem is that if Jim Manion tried to legally pursue an Athlete for breach of contract the legal fees that the Athlete might have to spend to get the matter thrown out might be as high or higher than the $5,000 fine that the contract stipulates.

Once again, the Athlete Reps, led by Bob Chicherillo, are missing in action.
Great point Echo. Technically if an athlete bows out of a show in violation of the contract as it now stands the IFBB is the recipient of the fine paid by the athlete. The promoter suffers the loss, because the competitor couldn't make it to the show, yet the IFBB makes off with the cash from the fine. I don't suppose the IFBB cuts a check to the promoter for their trouble do they?

[fembb2006]

Amanda...Typical is most shows do not have Pro FBB...also Typical is we did not here from a single FBB about entering our show when the poster was done...But funny enough we heard from plenty of Fitness & Figure. Most FBB do not support the Pro shows themselves, I am just about done giving back.

Go compete in 07 at the New York Pro Show or the Chalotte Pro Show...oh, that's right their gone....

Ed Pariso

As a new person reading this thread I do not understand the poster issue. First the state NPC and the IFBB governing bodies have to approve the poster. This is typically done earlier than the deadline for entry into the show. How would the promoter know who was going to compete when the poster should be done months in advance. It was my understanding that the poster was used as a marketing tool and that it might be benificial to place images of those professionals you want to have enter your show on the poster.

Also how are the FBB going to support any show when the prize $$ are like the Europa with a total of $6000.00 for the FBB. That is it divided between the top three women. So third place gets $1000.00 really that is disgraceful!!!!!!!!!

[fembb2006]

There may be another option to pursue that would result in a more fair arrangement that provides adequate protection to both the promoter and the athlete. If there is more interest from the athletes I will be happy to discuss a possible approach to get this done.

But this is a very poorly constructed contract. What I find particularly interesting is that it is a contract between the Athlete and Jim Manion(IFBB). Ed and Betty Pariso are not signatories or direct parties to the contract. This leads me to question who "the organizer" is in this contract. Are we to interpret the term "organizer" as referring to the IFBB or to the Pariso's? Moreover, why does the IFBB need more protection/compensation than the promoter? And what is the applicable law? The law of the State of Pennsylvania? Texas?

I even wonder if this contract is legally enforceable. The problem is that if Jim Manion tried to legally pursue an Athlete for breach of contract the legal fees that the Athlete might have to spend to get the matter thrown out might be as high or higher than the $5,000 fine that the contract stipulates.

On the other hand, Mr. Manion may already know that this contract provision is not enforceable in a courtroom. If so, he might just freeze the athlete out of competition with an indefinite suspension. If the athlete wants to return to IFBB competition he/she will either pay the fine or retain a lawyer to persuade/force Mr. Manion to lift the suspension and wave or reduce the fines. Either way, the athlete still incurs financial expenditures.

Once again, the Athlete Reps, led by Bob Chicherillo, are missing in action.


WOW $5000.00 for a fee. That is stupid and amazing all the same time.. Who gets that $$$. What is done with it? How do they even come up with that amount anyway. Not like any of the competitions are worth that to the FBB...nobody gets any where close to that for competing.....great once again screwed by the sport we love???????????

[chris10000]

jana linke-sippl one month before europe pro show

[Texas]

I am so happy to see all the responses to this thread I started! I love hearing from all you guys and gals!

Texas

[kdbrit]

spot on conditioning is Robin's first name. She is the queen of the onion skin, and crazy details!

[NPCIN]

Robin, Julia and I are still waiting for pics. :camera:

[Scott]

Speaking of fbb's not showing uyp to compete, what has happened to the impressive Canadians that have turned Pro in recent years for example: Louise St Pierre, Helen Bouchard, Marnie Power, Jodie Micheals, and others. It seems as though the only Canadian fbb that competes in Christine Roth....... not that i am complaining of course :)

[hans]

So it looks like USA overall winner Heather Policky will be doing the Europa now too......

Hans

[Wildangel]

WOW! WOW! WOW! Heather looked unreal!!! She will do well for sure!!
Congrats!
Vicki Nixon :cheers:

[Procarri]

Well, the Europa will have more "new blood" then! What a show that will be. Cant wait to see the line up! :woot:

[jasons805]

Nice to see some new pros doing shows.

[mark000]

So it looks like USA overall winner Heather Policky will be doing the Europa now too......

Hans

Heather P told me Sunday evening that she wouldn't be competing until 2007.
I hope she changes her mind again.

In any case, there will be a pro FBB named Heather in the show worth going to Dallas to see.

[Eddie]

Its interesting that we will have two ladies who share the same name competing in the NPC BB division of this event.

Jodie B. and Jodi Leigh, which strangely enough actually rhymes when you say it :D ......will take the stage and we know they will be rockin' it for sure. :rockon:

Will be intriguing to see what happens if they are able to posedown with each other. ;)

[SarahDunlap]

I will be there for sure... and bigger than ever! weighing 159lbs right now, very close to being ready. wish me luck... really nervous this time!

Sarah

[greg]

Good luck Sarah ! :banana:

[genex]

Hey Sarah, can't wait to see how you come in! See ya in Big D!

[femalemusclefan]

I will be there for sure... and bigger than ever! weighing 159lbs right now, very close to being ready. wish me luck... really nervous this time!

Sarah

Good Luck Sarah! :sprite10:

[muscles_1976]

sarah,

how tall are you? and what weight do u hope to compete at?

[Texas]

Anyone want to chapperone a "newbie" to his first bodybuilding contest?

[jasons805]

I think she is 5-4 and will 150+ I guess

[muscles_1976]

oohhh I can't wait to see her standing next to G$, they are close in height and I believe gina should compete around 160ish, give or take a few

Is this sarah's pro debut as well?

[Scott]

If any one is thinking about coming but not sure b/c of expenses, i might would be up for splitting my room at the Host. PM me if interested. Good luck Sarah this show is getting better and better :)

[rpflex]

Last month, Luke Tesvich (our state chairman) told me that Tazzie Colomb is going to be doing the Europa. At the beginning of July, she was weighing around 185 and looking very lean. Tazzie is always impressive and could shake things up.

[Eddie]

oohhh I can't wait to see her standing next to G$, they are close in height and I believe gina should compete around 160ish, give or take a few

Is this sarah's pro debut as well?

Sarah has competed in pro shows before.

She's did the New York & Charlotte shows in 2005.

[genex]

Would love to see Tazzie on stage - if she is it'll be an incredible lineup (not that it isn't already but moreso!)

[hans]

Last month, Luke Tesvich (our state chairman) told me that Tazzie Colomb is going to be doing the Europa. At the beginning of July, she was weighing around 185 and looking very lean. Tazzie is always impressive and could shake things up.

Great scoop Robin! Thanks for sharing it. Tazzie making a comeback - wow, that could really be interesting. I was a big fan of hers back when she was started as a pro....

Hans

[Tripper]

Go Tazzie!! I remember seeing her win the USA's back in early 90's. It was televised on ESPN. I didn't know much about FBB's back then but after seeing her I was a fan for life. Plus she's a fellow New Orleanian so she's one of my favs.

[Procarri]

Kim Perez will be competing again this year as well!

[mark000]

Oklahoma is becoming the FBB Mecca!

Will Tonie Norman be competing in the Europa again?

[Jodi Leigh]

Its interesting that we will have two ladies who share the same name competing in the NPC BB division of this event.

Jodie B. and Jodi Leigh, which strangely enough actually rhymes when you say it :D ......will take the stage and we know they will be rockin' it for sure. :rockon:

Will be intriguing to see what happens if they are able to posedown with each other. ;)

I think the name is a good luck charm! Remember...Jody May comes from Texas as well. Lots of Jodi(ie)(y)'s out here! And we're all unique...not just in how we spell our names but in the packages we bring to the stage. Wow...I don't even know what package I'll bring to a bodybuilding stage anymore; it's been so long! No matter...it'll be a blast!

I can't wait for the show! (Well, I can...I need these three weeks!)

[Wildangel]

YES, Toni Norman will be on stage in TEXAS!!! Shes my buddy. We had a blast at the Bulk show last year as well. GO TONI! I will be on stage with all the Big girls this year also. Last year there was 2 weight class's....this year will be very i interesting for sure!! 3 weeks out!! Yehawww!!!
Vicki Nixon
www.vickinixon.com

[Eddie]

I think the name is a good luck charm! Remember...Jody May comes from Texas as well. Lots of Jodi(ie)(y)'s out here! And we're all unique...not just in how we spell our names but in the packages we bring to the stage. Wow...I don't even know what package I'll bring to a bodybuilding stage anymore; it's been so long! No matter...it'll be a blast!

I can't wait for the show! (Well, I can...I need these three weeks!)

Hey Jodi

Yeah that's a good point, about Jody May but I knew she wasn't in this event.

As far your package goes Jodi, I'd say bring exactly what you've been bringing and then go from there. With you its all about once again getting that feel for bodybuilding since as you said you've been out of the mix for a while. Right now I think you have what it takes to be successful, great development, fabulous symmetry, it just will come down to conditioning the detail in your physique as it does with many. But if they tell you to become bigger and you do it in moderation then that's fine.......but just don't let them get to you in a way that will harm you in long run. I believe an athlete should ONLY add size if they TRULY need it to help with development or symmetry.
But definately not just to be at a certain weight. So be sure to keep that in mind girl. But like I say I think you everything it takes right now and not a lot of change is needed at all. Just stay true to yourself.

[Jody May]

Jodi!!!!!!

I am soooooooo happy you finally came back!!!!!! Was it 3 or 4 years ago now that we talked about this?!!!!! I knew it would happen, and when you threw in that bicep shot at in Vegas I knew!!!!!

I will be there cheering for you!!!(Not that you need it!!)

Jody

[Maxt]

Jody congratulations-you are making the right decision!

[Scott]

Woo hoo only 14 days away, Lets us all say a prayer between now and then for those that will be traveling by plane especially those coming from overseas

[jasons805]

Good thing that was stopped before anything bad happened.

[rhondariley]

Good Luck Jodi hope bodybuilding fulfills your dreams..


Isn't there a competitor list out yet?

[chris10000]

now it is problem for jana linke-sippl to bring the water on airplane.

[bigbrother]

yes it sucks
traveling overseas was already a major drag for bodybuilders. (small seats, plastic food, etc etc)
But at least one could bring in food and drinks to survive this pain-in-the-butt-ocean-crossover ........
Now its over and out ....... only documents in a transparent plastic bag, period.
Man it sucks bad ...... no food for 9 hours .... guess i will chew on one of those trays, eat a pillow or nibble on a life vest.
cay in Arlington though ;)

[Wildangel]

I was reading that Jana Linke Sippl was doing the Europa, i got the LIST of female BB's yesterday and her name was not on it...when is she sending in her contract? So far there are 20 females in the IFBB Pro division!! :)) Good turnout so far!!
Vicki Nixon

[Jodi Leigh]

I don't know that bodybuilding will actually fulfill my dreams, but it sure will add a little more excitement to my life than figure seemed to have these past couple of years.

I can't wait to see you, Jody, at the show! Two more weeks! Everyone has said to me, "It's about time, Jodi!" I found a journal entry from two years ago where I had talked with Amanda Dunbar--she's been on me ever since the 2002 Junior Nationals to go back to the "dark side"--and contemplated making the switch. What can I say? I'm slow to make decisions, but once I make them...BAM! They're done. Final. Set in stone.

I'm still going to walk to the beat of my own drum no matter which division I compete in. I'll be the one to choose how my body looks for any given show. If I want more size in my shoulders and back, then I'll bust my butt in the gym and work with my trainer on the diet in order to achieve those results. But if I feel that the look the judges want from me is too much for what I want in my personal life, then I will stick with my wishes...not theirs. Simple as that.

In the end, this is for me. Not seven or nine strangers who scrutinize me for only an evening while I scrutinize myself for a lifetime. By making a switch from figure to bodybuilding, I effaced the pressure of that pro card--which I never heard the end of since making the top five back in the 2003 Figure Nationals--and brought back the word "fun" into the mix. I'm not stupid. I weigh 106 pounds right now at two weeks out. I know that the likelihood of me receiving a pro card in bodybuilding is about as likely as me playing basketball for the Dallas Mavericks. I have a career that supports me. I have fans and friends and family who love me. And I have a hobby that separates me from the rest.

That's all. In the end, I make my decisions. So don't worry about me suddenly following someone else's path of desires just because a trophy or card is dangled as a carrot. I rarely do what others want me to do simply because they want it. Rarely. Very rarely. Ask my mother about that one...lol!!

[B.A.]

Here's the competitor's list for the Europa:

The tentative competitor list (subject to change) includes:

Men's Bodybuilding

Art Atwood
Darrem Charles
Shehab Eldin
George Farah
Dave Fisher
Toney Freeman
Roland Huff
Johnnie Jackson
Tricky Jackson
King Kamali
Frank Roberson
Silvo Samuel Saviour
Rodney St. Cloud
Joel Stubbs
Quincy Taylor
George Turmon
Dennis Wolf
Nathan Wonsley
Women's Bodybuilding


Nathalie Abellan
Kim Buck
Maria Calo
Tazzie Colomb
Gina Davis
Angela Debatin
Heather Foster
Aurelia Grozajova
Marika Johansson
Klaudia Larson
Maria Leena Lehtonen
Maryse Manios
Emery Miller
Gayle Moher
Colette Nelson
Vicki Nixon
Antoinette Norman
Jeannie Paparone
Kim Perez
Dena Westerfield
Fitness Competitors


Jennifer Cassety
Kendra Elias
Bethany Gainey
Amy Haddad
Amy Huber
Donna Jones (may be in Figure due to injury)
Lori Kimes
Angela Monteleone-Semsch
Bridgette Murray
Bridgette Newell
Mindi O'Brien
Jane Prado
Stacy Simons
Kate Szep
Karen Walcott-Williams
Sandra Wickham
Figure Competitors


Michelle Adams
Jennifer Becerra
Natalie Benson
Thais Cabrices-Werner
Jenny Guenther
Ines Jimenez-Salazar
Arina Manta
Petra Mertl
Leslie Morris
Lisa Morton
June Munroe
Kirsten Nicewarner
Julie Palmer
Amy Peters
Kate Shelby
Julie Wallis
Christine Wan
Latisha Wilder

[Michelle Brent]

Great to see Europeans gals, we need some mix up and it makes it interesting and hopefully competitive. And also hopefully the judges keep their eyes open to these gals, including the lighter gals!!!
Good Luck to all, can't wait to see the finishing product of Kim Bucks routine as she hired me on to do her routine!!! Go Kim!!!
www.michellesmajesticmuscle.com

[Michelle Brent]

Well said Jodi!!!

[Echo]

Great to see Europeans gals, we need some mix up and it makes it interesting and hopefully competitive....... www.michellesmajesticmuscle.com (http://www.michellesmajesticmuscle.com/)

If these European ladies successfully endure the new, additional inconveniences of travelling to the U.S. in order to compete in the Europa, I hope that there will be someone in Texas that will offer to buy these athletes a dinner in gratitude for their participation in the contest.

[rpflex]

Add my name to the list of women bodybuilders. What a great turn out!

[BodybuilderBeth]

What a great line up for the FBB's!!! Glad to see Ed & Betty will have more of a turn out for the FBB division than Ed was originally concerned about.

Best of luck to all the ladies competing!!! My prayers go out to the ladies that have to travel overseas at this time. Along with Echo, I too hope that there are some people that can lend a helping hand and offer any kind of support for the ladies.

My little pep talk for all the girls competing is: Go out there and show the judges and the audience what you all have been training and dieting so hard for. Especially show that smile on your face for competing in this sport now matter what is happening with the Female Bodybuilding side of things.

Wishing all the girls the best of luck!!! :banana:

Beth

[Scott]

Great turnout! Should Sarah Dunlap's name be on that list?

[hans]

Wow great line-up! Great to see - especially after the discussion on here about female pros not competing.

Hans

[jasons805]

Great turnout! Should Sarah Dunlap's name be on that list?
She says she is doing it, so I would say so maybe just not updated.

[Gina Davis]

Wow! What a complete and wonderful HONOR it will be for me to be on the same stage as the ladies on this list! I got chills when I read it...I simply cannot wait to see them all live and in person! Not only am I a fellow pro, but I am a huge fan of a lot of them! Woohoo!!!!! NOW, I am excited!!!! :D
See ya soon--calf be damned! ( :confused: read G'Ology for clarification...)
G

[rpflex]

Wow! What a complete and wonderful HONOR it will be for me to be on the same stage as the ladies on this list! I got chills when I read it...I simply cannot wait to see them all live and in person! Not only am I a fellow pro, but I am a huge fan of a lot of them! Woohoo!!!!! NOW, I am excited!!!! :D
See ya soon--calf be damned! ( :confused: read G'Ology for clarification...)
G

That link doesn't seem to be working, Gina. I feel ya, girl and I'm betting on you in top three, no doubt!!!

[hans]

I got chills when I read it...I simply cannot wait to see them all live and in person!

I love that! It definitely looks like an exciting show - it has that perfect mix of debutantes (Gina, Dena, Kim Buck), a comeback (Tazzie) and veterans. Can't wait to see how everyone compares - and I know what you mean about getting the chills Gina! I thought it was just me! ;)

Hans

[Scott]

I love that! It definitely looks like an exciting show - it has that perfect mix of debutantes (Gina, Dena, Kim Buck), a comeback (Tazzie) and veterans. Can't wait to see how everyone compares - and I know what you mean about getting the chills Gina! I thought it was just me! ;)

Hans

I think Ed knew was going to be a big show he just wanted to fire everybody up :banana: Just giving ya a hard time Ed!

Cant wait to see you on stage G as well as all the others!

[Gina Davis]

That link doesn't seem to be working, Gina.

Hi Robin!

You are among the ones I am thrilled to be on stage with mamacita!! Oh yes, G'Ology is a pop-up, so if you disable your pop-up blocker, you will be able to see it.
Thanks!
G

[chris10000]

you forgot jana linke-sippl in bodybuilding!!!

[greg]

Awesome competitors on the list ! Is there going to be one class or two ?

[Wildangel]

ONE weight class....All of us on ONE stage together!!! AWESOME! 11 More days Girls!! This is it!!! Time to do our thang!!!
xxo
Vicki Nixon
Cant wait to see all of you! :sprite10:

[kdbrit]

I am rooting for Natalie Benson (The unofficial Figure overall winner at the USA's this year).

[rhondariley]

Looks like Latisha Wilder might finally get the pro figure win she deserves... Go Latisha!!

[Wolverine]

Looks like Latisha Wilder might finally get the pro figure win she deserves... Go Latisha!!

I'm with ya Rhonda!!!! I hope Latisha wins one FINALLY!!! By the way, you are MISSED on the pro stage..you were (and still are) one of the best!

[greg]

Thanks Vicki :)

[kdbrit]

Latisha is the most over looked professional figure competitor! When I look at comparison pictures of her, it is really hard to understand most of her placings. The judges do not know how to judge her physique! She has a beautiful body from every angle, and she is curvy, muscular, and feminine! It would be nice to see her win a big show, like the Arnold!

[Lift Studios]

Latisha Wilder has a great physique and will definitely be near the top but I don't seen anyone beating Amanda Savell. Also if Natalie Benson is entering this show it will be interesting to see her against the pros. Her shape is incredible and she has a very healthy, beautiful, marketable look.

Female bodybuilding fans - check out the video interview on http://graphicmuscle.com with Marika Johansson.

[kdbrit]

I agree with your comments about Natalie Benson, because she has a symmetrical physique, that is also beautiful too! Her muscles are pretty, and athletic looking, like a elite world class sprinter, with a tiny waistline.

[Procarri]

Natalie is looking incredible and very excited about competing in her home state! Be there cheering her on! I think she will hold her own as a new pro! :camera:

[Scott]

Does any1 know when the weigh-ins will be? thx

[JodieB]

Thurs 6:30ish for the Pros. Fri @ 4ish for the NPC.

[BodybuilderBeth]

You are right on...I am angry...when FBB do not show up, it pisses me off. Lots of money wasted and a sport that is dying, partly becasue of lack of competitors.

Yea...I am angry, my support and lack of theirs.

Ed

Just saw the competitor list as of 8/17 and the numbers show:

21 Male bodybuilders
25 Female bodybuilders
25 Figure competitors
21 Fitness competitors

Golly, sport that is dying? Wasting money? Who would of even thought there would EVER be more FBB's then Men and the same amount as Figure competitors? CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A FBB ON THE AD NEXT YEAR?

Way to go IFBB FBB's my support goes to all of you for sticking to your guns regardless of the BS going on.

Hat's off to all 25 girls!!!! I commend you all!!!

Beth

[CalJoe]

You are right on...I am angry...when FBB do not show up, it pisses me off. Lots of money wasted and a sport that is dying, partly becasue of lack of competitors.

Yea...I am angry, my support and lack of theirs.

Ed
When you consider the lack of coverage, support, respect, and money afforded to the female pro bb'ers, not to mention the lack of shows available for them to compete in, I can see how the women pros can lose interest. Yet, the women pro bb'ers tighten their lifting straps, shell out the money necessary to compete, and undertake the rigors of contest dieting. These women have a ton of enthusiasm for their sport. How much so? Try 25 entries on behalf of the women bb'ers at the Europa as opposed to 21 men pro bb'ers and 25 figure women.

In light of the demeaning and angry rant you leveled at the pro women bb'ers to go along with all the whining you did about their supposed lack of participation in your show, I feel you owe these IFBB female pro bb'ers an apology. The pro bb'ers did their job of "manning up", now it's your turn.

[Eddie]

When you consider the lack of coverage, support, respect, and money afforded to the female pro bb'ers, not to mention the lack of shows available for them to compete in, I can see how the women pros can lose interest. Yet, the women pro bb'ers tighten their lifting straps, shell out the money necessary to compete, and undertake the rigors of contest dieting. These women have a ton of enthusiasm for their sport. How much so? Try 25 entries on behalf of the women bb'ers at the Europa as opposed to 21 men pro bb'ers and 25 figure women. In light of the demeaning and angry rant you leveled at the pro women bb'ers to go along with all the whining you did about their supposed lack of participation in your show, I feel you owe these IFBB female pro bb'ers an apology. The pro bb'ers did their job of "manning up", now it's your turn.

Joe

I don't think you can effectively back up your argument with those numbers.

First of all......the Figure athletes are the same number of entries as the BB, so where's your point there??

And second.....the only reason why there more FBB at this event than men is because its the only show they can sign up for besides the Atlantic City show.

So again make sure you know in full effect of what's going on before you step into a debate with someone.....:rolleyes:

[Echo]

...In light of the demeaning and angry rant you leveled at the pro women bb'ers to go along with all the whining you did about their supposed lack of participation in your show, I feel you owe these IFBB female pro bb'ers an apology. The pro bb'ers did their job of "manning up", now it's your turn.


CalJoe:

I share most, if not all, of the sentiments expressed by you and BodybuilderBeth in the preceding post(s). However, it is a bit premature to demand an apology from Ed at this time. I agree that his public complaints about lack of FBB participation in the Europa, at the very least, was tactically stupid from a promotional point of view. After shooting at his own troops he is very fortunate to have the support that he now has.

As you know, the Europa does not just feature 25 female bodybuilders versus 21 in the men's division, the event includes a total of 50 female participants. With women outnumbering male competitors in the event by a 2 to 1 margin the success or failure of the promotion is now riding on Women, period.

Therefore, if the promotion does not do well financially Ed (and others) could still place responsibity for this on the Women. (I doubt that he or any other promoter will publicly blame his/her own promotional mistakes) So, we must still hold our breath and hope that Europa turns out to be a successful event for the Parisos.

[CalJoe]

Joe

I don't think you can effectively back up your argument with those numbers.

First of all......the Figure athletes are the same number of entries as the BB, so where's your point there??

And sceond.....the only reason why there more FBB at this event than men is because its the only show they can sign up for besides the Atlantic City show.

So again make sure you know in full effect of what's going on before you step into a debate with someone.....:rolleyes:
Eddie,

The reason for the numbers I mentioned and the tone of my post was the fact that Ed singled out the women bb'ers in his anger. He didn't post anything regarding whether or not the figure women were entering his show, and he certainly didn't say anything about the men. Ed chose to take a shot at the women bodybuilders and their so called lack of interest. Given Ed's attitute towards the women bb'ers the numbers do speak for themselves as a counterpoint to Ed's position about the women bb'ers.

Ed came in here whining and *****ing about the women pros, intimating that it's their lack of interest that is representative of the decline in women's bb. The women bodybuilders are showing up 25 strong. That is the point I'm making. I can't help it if you can't understand what I'm saying.

I know very well what I'm saying, and why I'm saying it. Maybe you need to understand a little more about what I'm saying in relation to Ed's comments abuot women pros. :headscrat

[BodybuilderBeth]

[QUOTE=Echo]

I agree that his public complaints about lack of FBB participation in the Europa, at the very least, was tactically stupid from a promotional point of view. After shooting at his own troops he is very fortunate to have the support that he now has.


Amen, Echo :sprite10:

BB

[Eddie]

Eddie,

The reason for the numbers I mentioned and the tone of my post was the fact that Ed singled out the women bb'ers in his anger. He didn't post anything regarding whether or not the figure women were entering his show, and he certainly didn't say anything about the men. Ed chose to take a shot at the women bodybuilders and their so called lack of interest. Given Ed's attitute towards the women bb'ers the numbers do speak for themselves as a counterpoint to Ed's position about the women bb'ers.

Ed came in here whining and *****ing about the women pros, intimating that it's their lack of interest that is representative of the decline in women's bb. The women bodybuilders are showing up 25 strong. That is the point I'm making. I can't help it if you can't understand what I'm saying.

I know very well what I'm saying, and why I'm saying it. Maybe you need to understand a little more about what I'm saying in relation to Ed's comments abuot women pros. :headscrat


OH OK, my fault then..... :o
I do see what you mean Joe, thanks for clear that up.

[SoniaWagner]

What bothers me is that the fitness girls are left out of the conversation. Why mentioned the # of Fbb, Mbb, and figure girls, but leave out the fitness girls? I see everyone talk about about the raw deal fbbs get, but it seems to me the fitness competitors are the ones who are most ignored.

I will be at the Europa, competing in NPC Fitness.

[Echo]

What bothers me is that the fitness girls are left out of the conversation. Why mentioned the # of Fbb, Mbb, and figure girls, but leave out the fitness girls? I see everyone talk about about the raw deal fbbs get, but it seems to me the fitness competitors are the ones who are most ignored.

I will be at the Europa, competing in NPC Fitness.

You are right, Sonia. When you include the fitness competitors the total number of female competitors in the event out-number the males by a margin of 3 to 1. So, I have only one thing to say: GIRL POWER!!

Good luck this weekend, Sonia. Stay healthy and land on your feet!!

[Lift Studios]

I'll be covering fitness, figure and bodybuilding today on www.hardbodyradio.com and did a preview on the women's show on getbig...

http://getbig.com/news/2006-03/060821europa.htm

[CalJoe]

OH OK, my fault then..... :o
I do see what you mean Joe, thanks for clear that up.
It's ok Eddie. I'm glad you see what I was trying to say.

On a seperate note, the process of preparing for a bodybuilding show is quite an undertaking, particularly for the women. The fact that 25 women chose the Europa is telling. If the Europa was the only show then it can be conceeded that the women had no choice. The fact is that there is one more show, which is the Atlantic City (there should be more). I would imagine that some of these competitors had to choose between the Europa and the Atlantic City show, being that it's hard to peak for 2 shows that are several weeks apart and then peak again for the Olympia should the opportunity arise. That these 25 women chose the Europa as their attempt to qualify for the Olympia speaks perhaps speaks volumes for they believe to be a well run show. I hope this makes Ed feel better about his efforts.

[fbbhubby]

Eddie,

The reason for the numbers I mentioned and the tone of my post was the fact that Ed singled out the women bb'ers in his anger. He didn't post anything regarding whether or not the figure women were entering his show, and he certainly didn't say anything about the men. Ed chose to take a shot at the women bodybuilders and their so called lack of interest. Given Ed's attitute towards the women bb'ers the numbers do speak for themselves as a counterpoint to Ed's position about the women bb'ers.

At the time of his post, the Figure women were entering and sending in contracts so there were plenty of figure competitors. This was not true for the bodybuilders. Very few contracts at that time. Subsequent to his posts, the contracts came in.....maybe because of his posts??? I don't know why the bodybuilders waited so long when the Figure women didn't. It's the same contract. You know he wanted to publicize the names of the women competitors as part of his promotion of the event, but he can't til the contracts are received.
BTW, that contract is so one-sided that it's doing more harm than good. It may be keeping potential competitors away who are sitting on the fence if they may want to compete in that show.

[CalJoe]

At the time of his post, the Figure women were entering and sending in contracts so there were plenty of figure competitors. This was not true for the bodybuilders. Very few contracts at that time. Subsequent to his posts, the contracts came in.....maybe because of his posts??? I don't know why the bodybuilders waited so long when the Figure women didn't. It's the same contract. You know he wanted to publicize the names of the women competitors as part of his promotion of the event, but he can't til the contracts are received.
BTW, that contract is so one-sided that it's doing more harm than good. It may be keeping potential competitors away who are sitting on the fence if they may want to compete in that show.
I see your point, however, you must remember that there is a lot more of an investment the bodybuilders have to make (i.e. money for supps, length of diet etc). That being said, I can understand why some of these women may have been waiting to send in their signed contracts. Ed should have understood this too. And besides, going on a hissy fit isn't going to sway someone to your postion anyway. He could have gotten the same message across without posting his angry remarks.

[fbbhubby]

Well, I can't wait to see 25 pro female bodybuilders on stage at once!! It's a huge judging chore to give all the competitors a good look and not overlook someone. And with the variety of physiques in women bodybuilders (i.e. no weight classes) it makes it even more difficult to judge. Tazzie next to Vicki Nixon?

This is going to be a GREAT show!!

[CalJoe]

Well, I can't wait to see 25 pro female bodybuilders on stage at once!! It's a huge judging chore to give all the competitors a good look and not overlook someone. And with the variety of physiques in women bodybuilders (i.e. no weight classes) it makes it even more difficult to judge. Tazzie next to Vicki Nixon?

This is going to be a GREAT show!!
Great point. It is going to be very interesting to see these various physiques side by side with no regard to weight or height. The judges will really have to take a good look at everyone, and like you said, I hope they don't overlook anyone, particularly the European women that have travelled so far at such great expense.

[genex]

and without any water!

[CalJoe]

and without any water!
Yes, how could I forget water. These European women don't have it easy when it comes to these shows. They have to fly probably 10-12 hours depending on where they're coming from in Europe.

[Echo]

At the time of his post, the Figure women were entering and sending in contracts so there were plenty of figure competitors. This was not true for the bodybuilders. Very few contracts at that time.

Please keep in mind that in Pro figure many of the competitors have promotional contracts with JMP Management, which is operated by Mr. Manion's son, "JM." Each year, JM expects his clients to commit themselves to a certain number of contests during the year, well in advance of the contest dates. This accounts for the early entry of the figure competitors.

Also, keep in mind that the IFBB Pro Competition Contracts are recieved (and probably drafted) by none other than Jim Manion. Therefore, if I am a JM client I don't think I would be as concerned about the language of the contract and its potential negative repercussions because I am sure that "JM' would have me "covered."

.. Subsequent to his posts, the contracts came in.....maybe because of his posts??? I don't know why the bodybuilders waited so long when the Figure women didn't. It's the same contract. You know he wanted to publicize the names of the women competitors as part of his promotion of the event, but he can't til the contracts are received.
BTW, that contract is so one-sided that it's doing more harm than good. It may be keeping potential competitors away who are sitting on the fence if they may want to compete in that show.

A bodybuilder pushes herself harder and puts more at risk in preparing for a contest than a figure competitor. Consequently, there are more things that can potentially go wrong at the last minute for the bodybuilder even though the bodybuilder has to plan long in advance to prepare for the contest. Until the athletes have a reasonable contract in which to sign, the wise athlete will wait as long as possible before tendering the competition contract to Mr. Manion.

[mark000]

Just saw the competitor list as of 8/17 and the numbers show:

21 Male bodybuilders
25 Female bodybuilders
25 Figure competitors

Golly, sport that is dying? Wasting money? Who would of even thought there would EVER be more FBB's then Men and the same amount as Figure competitors? CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A FBB ON THE AD NEXT YEAR?

Way to go IFBB FBB's my support goes to all of you for sticking to your guns regardless of the BS going on. Hats off to all 25 girls!!!! I commend you all!!!

Beth

If Beth :star: is on the poster next time it would definitely draw fans! :banana:

http://www.musclewomen.org/Beth/Pics/Beth0007.jpg

But where did you see the competitor list? Please post!

[chris10000]

more than 20 hours flight.(including stop in atlanta). then landing in night. can not bring food with.....

[BodybuilderBeth]

:( What bothers me is that the fitness girls are left out of the conversation. Why mentioned the # of Fbb, Mbb, and figure girls, but leave out the fitness girls? I see everyone talk about about the raw deal fbbs get, but it seems to me the fitness competitors are the ones who are most ignored.

I will be at the Europa, competing in NPC Fitness.

Please forgive me Sonia for not posting the 21 Fitness Competitors for the Europa. I did not see that I missed the Fitness competitors until you said something. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Best of luck competing this weekend!

Beth :sprite10:

[mark000]

So Beth, where can we find the competitors list?

I didn't see anything on the Europa site.

[BodybuilderBeth]

If Beth :star: is on the poster next time it would definitely draw fans! :banana:

But where did you see the competitor list? Please post!

Thanks Mark for posting that picture of me and for thinking of me for on the poster. I am aiming to compete at this show next year. Being on the poster would be nice, and an honor, but in truth just being on that stage again will be quite rewarding!

Thanks again, Mark

Beth :sprite10:

[BodybuilderBeth]

So Beth, where can we find the competitors list?

I didn't see anything on the Europa site.


I found it on Muscle Mayhem

[mark000]

Link or list, pretty please?

[BodybuilderBeth]

It's under muscle mayhem forums under the competitions topic and then the europa competitor list thread

[mark000]

Thanks Beth :-)

Here is the list as of 8/17:

Women's Bodybuilding:

Abellan, Nathalie
Buck, Kim
Calo, Maria
Colomb, Tazzie
Davis, Gina
Debatin, Angela
Dunlap, Sarah
Foster, Heather
Gerard, Denise
Grozajova, Aurelia
Jerumbo, Mary Ellen
Johansson, Marika
Larson, Klaudia
Lehtonen, Maria-Leena
Linke-Sippl, Jana
Manios Maryse
Miller, Emery
Moher, Gayle
Nelson, Colette
Nixon, Vicki
Norman, Antoinette
Paparone, Jeannie
Parker, Robin
Perez, Kimberly
Westerfield, Dena

But one of the Europeans told me she has the flu and won't be coming :-(


FITNESS:


Cassety, Jennifer
Elias, Kendra
Gainey, Bethany
Haddad, Amy
Huber, Amy
Johnson, Tanji
Jones, Donna Louise
Kimes, Lorie
Lohre, Julie
Monteleone- Semsch, Angela
Murray, Bridgette
Newell, Bridgette
O'Brien, Mindi
Palmer, Julie
Prado, Jane
Simons, Stacy
Szep, Katie
Walcott-Williams, Karen
Warren, Trish
Weaver-Ward, Sandie
Wickham, Sandra

FIGURE:


Adams, Michelle
Becerra, Jennifer
Benson, Natalie
Brown, Natasha
Cabrices-Werner, Thais
Davidson, Erica
Galvan, Bernadette
Guenther, Jennette
Jimenez-Salazar, Ines
Larsson, Anna
Malacarne, Juliana
Manta, Arina
Mertl, Petra
Morris, Leslie
Morton, Lisa
Munroe, June
Nicewarner, Kirsten
Nordin, Pauline
Peters, Amy
Savell, Amanda
Shelby, Kate
Wallis, Julie (D.J.)
Tozzi, Mavis
Wan, Christine
Wilder, Latisha

[Scott]

wow what a show its going to be! Now if i can only get a little zzz's b4 my flight takes off early in the morning! Give Ed a break its not easy running these type of events and its nothing wrong with a little venting, he wasnt personally attacking any1. Ok i am done see yall in Arlington that will be there :)

[ibarramedia]

If Beth :star: is on the poster next time it would definitely draw fans! :banana:

http://www.musclewomen.org/Beth/Pics/Beth0007.jpg

But where did you see the competitor list? Please post!


Gotta love Beth!!! What is a world without Beth?

[europefigure]

Thanks Beth :-)

Here is the list as of 8/17:


Malacarne, Juliana




2005 IFBB Overall World Champion (Bodyfitness) in Santa Susanna :)

[Lift Studios]

Anyone who thinks that figure and fitness competitors have it easier then female bodybuilders clearly haven't been around pro fitness and figure competitors. They spend as much in their prep as bodybuilders, many more if you want to include their routines, outfits on top of their posing suits and not to mention a trainer and their supplements.

Train with any top figure or fitness competitor and you'll see they train just as hard as bodybuilders.

[Mike]

Not only training, but doing those routines when they are so lean and carb depleted is the most impressive part of Fitness competitors.

[LAWDOG]

Anyone who thinks that figure and fitness competitors have it easier then female bodybuilders clearly haven't been around pro fitness and figure competitors. They spend as much in their prep as bodybuilders, many more if you want to include their routines, outfits on top of their posing suits and not to mention a trainer and their supplements.

Train with any top figure or fitness competitor and you'll see they train just as hard as bodybuilders.

Fitness - absolutely! Figure - not even close (unless you give them credit for quarter turns in stripper heels) :rolleyes:

[CalJoe]

Fitness - absolutely! Figure - not even close (unless you give them credit for quarter turns in stripper heels) :rolleyes:
I agree when it comes to Fitness. They have to do all those crazy gymnastic moves, but save it when it comes to figure. You can't even begin to compare the diet, let alone the money involved in the supplement programs involved.

[Lift Studios]

I agree when it comes to Fitness. They have to do all those crazy gymnastic moves, but save it when it comes to figure. You can't even begin to compare the diet, let alone the money involved in the supplement programs involved.
Care to wager on this? I know 110% without question I can if you'd like to discuss it further, the door is open.

[CalJoe]

Care to wager on this? I know 110% without question I can if you'd like to discuss it further, the door is open.
Are you an idiot? Don't even try to compare what a figure competitor does for diet with what a bodybuilder does. And as for the money involved with the purchases of supplements...don't even go there. Be real.

[NPCIN]

I'm going to have to agree with Lawdog and CalJoe on this one. I know a figure girl who has a couple of top five placings this year at National level shows. She said with the "new" criteria she doesn't lift weights anymore and has slacked up of the diet as they told her the beginning of this year that she was too muscular and too hard.

[Lift Studios]

Are you an idiot? Don't even try to compare what a figure competitor does for diet with what a bodybuilder does. And as for the money involved with the purchases of supplements...don't even go there. Be real.Do you know what any figure competitor does for her prep and her supplements? I know you're a fan of female bodybuilding, so why don't you email Kathy Lee-Priest and ask her for her take on it.

[Lift Studios]

that she was too muscular and too hard.

Furthering my point of "supplementation" in the figure ranks.

[Echo]

Care to wager on this? I know 110% without question I can if you'd like to discuss it further, the door is open.

I will take that bet in a New York minute. I am very well acquainted with two ladies who will be competing in the Olympia figure competition this year. One has competed at the Olympia several times. I am very knowledgeable about their prep. I have observed their training many times over as well as several other National level figure competitors.

One of the two Pros that I referenced tried training with me but decided not to continue. She said the workouts made her "too sore" and added that she was afraid that the training stimulus might make her look "too much like a bodybuilder." Translation: she couldn't "hang" with serious bodybuilding workouts.

It is absolutely true that most of the high level figure competitors devote about the same amount of time to training as the bodybuilders. But one should not confuse training duration with training intensity. There is a difference between spending hours spinning off energy into the universe with low intensity cardio and the figure version of blood volume weight training as compared with the higher intensity, growth stimulating workouts of the serious bodybuilder.

Moreover, many of the figure competitors I know are being told by judges not to get "too hard." As a result, they are being extra cautious about their training intensities/effort. Intensity is defined as the amount of work performed per unit time. Work is defined as mass times distance. The sprinter performs more work per unit time than the marathon runner. The difference is evident in the physiques.

The more a figure competitor trains like a bodybuilder the more she will resemble a bodybuilder. At present, there seems to be a consensus in the figure community which indicates that the competitors do not want to resemble bodybuilders.

[Lift Studios]

I'm not saying all figure competitors nor will I, but I know several figure competitors that train with greater intensity then male bodybuilders. It's probably a fair assesment that MOST figure competitors don't train as hard as bodybuilders. However to generalize and say that all figure competitors don't train with intensity is simply not the case.

[BodybuilderBeth]

None of this is easy, no matter what division you are in. It does take ALOT of courage and discipline for every one of the competitors, whether it be figure, fitness, or bodybuilding. Enough said....

To get this thread back on track........

I'm curious.....I believe the weigh-ins for the female bodybuilders are tonight. Wonder why they are having weigh-ins when there are no weight classes? Any input?

Beth

[Lift Studios]

I believe tonight there is only a Pro Athlete's meeting and no weigh-in.

Tomorrow afternoon there is an NPC meeting and weigh-in at 4pm.

[Lift Studios]

My preview on FEMALE FRIDAY now available on bodybuilding.com....

http://bodybuilding.com/fun/isaac52.htm

[genex]

I'm checking it out now Isaac!

[Lift Studios]

I'm checking it out now Isaac!
Thanks G - Let me know what ya think. I'll see ya tomorrow in TX.

[genex]

So at the athletes meeting Ed told the women that because of the good turnout for the show this year, that the prize money will be better for the show in 2007. He sees it falling in behind the Olympia and Arnold as the third top pro show (which it already is I would say).

Lots of international talent including Jana Linke Sippl, Klaudia Larsen, Aurelia Grozajova and of course lots of pro debuts such as Dena Westerfield and Robin Parker as well as Kim Buck. Should be a great show tomorrow!

** Oh yeah there were no weigh ins since there are no classes although Betty said they are petitioning to bring them back due to popular demand from the athletes.

[chris10000]

jana going to the meeting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rry4uzO7-tA

[dacof]

HELP.....this is the first time I will not be at one of my sister's competitions. I am really bummed! If anyone can snap a few pic's and post them I would be sooooo happy! She is pro fitness competitor Katie Szep....I believe she is #18 today.
Good luck to all the girls!

[ripitupbaby]

HELP.....this is the first time I will not be at one of my sister's competitions. I am really bummed! If anyone can snap a few pic's and post them I would be sooooo happy! She is pro fitness competitor Katie Szep....I believe she is #18 today.
Good luck to all the girls!


Katie will be wearing suits made by my good friend Maggie Blanchard (maggiefit.com) and they look awesome! I can't wait to see pics! Good luck to her and everyone else!

[dacof]

Maggie's suits are wonderful! Katie is thrilled with her new 1 piece. Maggie is truly talented!

Between the suits and her great routines, I think this will be a great show for my sis! Looking forward to the pics as well!

[Michelle Brent]

Robin, Go kick butt, you and Barry hang in there together. Wish Bill and I were there with my big mouth rooting you on!!! Hugs,
And everybody else!! so exciting to see the numbers up for the women!!!

[genex]

Two quick shots of Sarah Dunlap before she heads over to prejudging:
http://static.flickr.com/70/224536417_1d3cdf336f_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/66/224536418_dafbb6c787_o.jpg

[BodybuilderBeth]

Does anyone know the times of the pre-judging and finals?

I'm anxious to see all the girls up on one stage!!! I have a couple of patients yet to see this afternoon, then I will be glued to this forum.

Thank God for Gene and James :sprite10:

Beth

[Amanda Dunbar]

From what I've heard from the fbb's earlier this morning, they won't be on stage until around 3pm for PJ today. I'm not positive about the night show, I'm thinking 7pm but not absolutely sure.

Amanda

[chris]

Anyone care to say who they think will win??? Or top 3?

[Amanda Dunbar]

I don't know who will win... but I KNOW Colette Nelson is in the best shape of her life. Striated glutes like she's never had before. We're so proud of her!!!!! Same with Robin. I saw pics of her the other day and her conditioning is insane right now... but that's what she's know for! :) It is going to be a great show. I can't wait to see pics!! Gene, please post a bunch when you can. Lots of Colette, Robin, and Gina....

I wish we were there!!!!!!

Amanda

[chris]

I think we all wish we were there.
My top 3 in any order
Gina
Kim Perez
Colette

[hans]

I can't wait to see how Tazzie Colomb looks as well...

Hans

[Michelle Brent]

Beth, your so funny! Here I am too!! God I have no life! Oh yeah this is my life!!!

[chris]

I can't wait to see how Tazzie Colomb looks as well...

Hans
I agree Hans that should be very interesting

[tjenks]

I am curious to see how Maria Calo places. I saw her on her webcam the other day and she had some freaky conditioning. She looked like an anatomy model for musculature.

[Michelle Brent]

OK I'm pulling from Mayhems board:
Pro Figure
1st callout D.J., Latisha,Galvin,Amanda Savell, Adams
Adams in middle D.J./Latisha to sides
2nd callout:
Pauline,Chris, Kristen

[Michelle Brent]

Also some gal named Kate in 2nd callout, then Pauline in the middle

[Eddie]

I don't know who will win... but I KNOW Colette Nelson is in the best shape of her life. Striated glutes like she's never had before. We're so proud of her!!!!! Same with Robin. I saw pics of her the other day and her conditioning is insane right now... but that's what she's know for! :)
Amanda

I'm not sure that IFBB judges want to see the lady competitors in any division with striated anything, because then they will use that LAME excuse of them being "too hard". So that may take Colette and Robin out of the running.

That's why I don't bother predicting IFBB events anymore because its just too much confusion from show to show.

All I care to do watch the athletes display there best, and in the meantime continue praying for changes to be made for the better with the officiating.

[BodybuilderBeth]

I am curious to see how Maria Calo places. I saw her on her webcam the other day and she had some freaky conditioning. She looked like an anatomy model for musculature.

Maria always does comes in good condition.

I am curious too how she will come in. I think each show she has been getting better and better!

[BodybuilderBeth]

OK I'm pulling from Mayhems board:
Pro Figure
1st callout D.J., Latisha,Galvin,Amanda Savell, Adams
Adams in middle D.J./Latisha to sides
2nd callout:
Pauline,Chris, Kristen

Michelle,

Which thread are you pulling the updates from?

BB

[genex]

http://static.flickr.com/69/224707096_e4d8bfd38a_o.jpg

[genex]

Figure 1st callout

http://static.flickr.com/68/224708167_7305d46bde_o.jpg

[genex]

Juliana Malacarne from Brazil was my favorite figure athlete - wow!

She's on the right next to Arina Manta from Australia.

http://static.flickr.com/81/224709759_9c798716c5_o.jpg

[genex]

I would guess this is Heather Foster's show as she got 1st callouts in both rounds.

Overall however, I'd say the callouts were pretty strange...

http://static.flickr.com/73/224711896_2a09fc7d9c_o.jpg

[genex]

Here's the first callout from the back in the symmetry round:
http://static.flickr.com/58/224715178_acbcbf25ea_o.jpg

same group in the muscularity round from the front:
http://static.flickr.com/82/224716589_fd487e24e4_o.jpg

[genex]

Kim Perez added 10 lbs of muscle to her legs mostly and looked incredible!

I thought she was sorely overlooked:
http://static.flickr.com/67/224723939_9ab07d4e71_o.jpg

[genex]

These women all looked great and could have been placed higher:
http://static.flickr.com/58/224725768_33a856e8ae_o.jpg

[genex]

Vicki Nixon looked great I thought too - here you go Eddie:
http://static.flickr.com/94/224727075_3ab0d10721_o.jpg

[genex]

Figure 2-pc 2nd callout:
http://static.flickr.com/90/224729352_b9ec76becf_o.jpg

[genex]

This was one of the deepest and quality fields in recent memory - almost everyone was amazing - some of the overlooked quality:
http://static.flickr.com/59/224730865_eea30443f5_o.jpg

[Mike]

WOW! all the ladies look great but Kim Perez sure has made some great improvements, as has Colette - both ladies have really brought up their legs a lot.

[BodybuilderBeth]

Kim Perez looks amazing!!!!

Way to go Dena, Gina, Robin, & Kim for this being their Pro Debut!!!

Tazzie is Shredded beyond shred.

Jeannie looks very complete and her back poses are unreal!!!!

Maria Calo looks complete as well I think she should have been in the first call-outs.

Marika Johansson looked awesome as well....I really liked her look.

Too many great physiques for one division!!!!

[fitnessdiva1]

any prejudging pics of natalie benson?

[CalJoe]

Congratulations to the ladies on what looks like a great turnout and a great show :sprite10: . From the pics I have seen so far I would have had the following in the top 5 in no certain order; Tazzie, Heather, Kim Buck, Maria Calo, and Kim Perez. Heather is not as sharp as the other 4, but she makes up for it with her lines and overall symmetry. I wouldn't be able to say who should win, because there are no comparison pics of my 5 picks together in the same shot.

Regardless, best of luck to all of those competing tonight :star: :sprite10:

[CalJoe]

Maria always does comes in good condition.

I am curious too how she will come in. I think each show she has been getting better and better!
Maria gets an unfair knock, because she is not exactly "photogenic" or not "feminine", which of course, can be quite misleading. The fact is that Maria does get better and better, and she had turned into a very formidable pro.

[CalJoe]

Here's the first callout from the back in the symmetry round:
http://static.flickr.com/58/224715178_acbcbf25ea_o.jpg

same group in the muscularity round from the front:
http://static.flickr.com/82/224716589_fd487e24e4_o.jpg
I'll show you striations....Tazzie's glutes' striations have striations, and check out the striations in her right triceps in the back relaxed pose....ouch!!! :1eek:

[genex]

Natalie Benson was definitely overlooked - here she is in one of the later callouts:
http://static.flickr.com/96/224781460_186bcb3502_o.jpg

[genex]

Here's another shot of Tazzie:
http://static.flickr.com/83/224783345_c575c16ff3_o.jpg

[genex]

Jana Linke Sippl:
http://static.flickr.com/59/224784535_ae78aa0e73_o.jpg

[genex]

Here's a solo shot of Colette Nelson:

http://static.flickr.com/69/224785365_92a2da4bb0_o.jpg

[mark000]

Additional overlooked AWESOME physiques: JANA LINKE-SIPPL, MARIKA JOHANSSON, :woot: both belonged in the top 5 IMHO,
also Klaudia Larson, Nathalie Abellan, Tonie Norman, Angela Debatin looked great. Bill Dobbins commented on the depth of quality in this field.

Jana came in with perhaps the most amazing combination of size and definition, and has no serious symmetry flaws, but was too much for the judges who put her in the last callout. :stupid:

The women came out in alphabetical order by last name. It appears that #9 was missing. Marja Lehtonen caught the flu and withdrew, i hope they don't penalize her. :(

[genex]

Kate Shelby and DJ Wallis:

http://static.flickr.com/91/224786486_992af8a320_o.jpg

[genex]

At the meeting I think #9 was for Denise Gerard but they already knew that Marja was not able to make it b/c of her flu.

Good points Mark!

[Brandi Burns]

wow. Some of those girls look amazing! Congrats to everyone.