schmotography ?

[genex]

Had this forwarded to me that Doug Schneider published. I remember talking to him about the industry:
http://www.bodybuildinglive.com/seriousaboutmuscle/publisherspage/20051001/

[jasons805]

Sorta seems like he is judging people without getting to know them first. When it comes to the womens side of the sport without the schmo side of it there would not be much money to be made.

[jasons805]

My goal with this article is to simply expose the practice and, hopefully, educate some competitors who might consider being prospective models for the schmotographers. As a publisher, and someone who works in photography and with real photographers, I feel it my responsibility to do so. So, my advice to female competitors who might be approached by a schmotographer is to think twice and then ask yourself, "Is it really worth it?"
Is he saying your not a real photographer or anyone else who is not working for"press" He seems to run websites and what photo training has he had? And video is very big on sites he seems a year or 2 behind.

[Brandi Burns]

I dont think he was reffering to Gene although I could be wrong. Some other people come to mind tho...

[Maxt]

Thanks Gene. I think he is kind of bitter and probably suffers from the competition since he represents himself as being "serious about muscle" and being some kind of photographer even though I've never even heard of him?

[claus]

I think, the article is reasonable, but here is a difficult place to discuss about.
GeneX is a good photographer and not only in female bodybuilding/fitness.
Some - or some more clients of fbb paysites are schmoes - they like and adore fbb in a way that has not much to do with the sport - they ask for sessions and more and tell the girls whatever for phantastic stories to shoot them (photography is not thr right word :camera: no women will become a star :star: because she is on a schmoe site...).
Its up to the women if they want to be "photographed" by these people and earn little money with this - there is hardly an alternative - only very few women can life by the money they earn in this sport and by sponsors.
Some women have own sites - they should take care nto to be apparent with to many pictures in other sites - like Johanna Dejager does. A certain exclusivity of pictures help to get the fans on their own pay sites. Other women running their business with very few pics beside their own Homepage are Iris Kyle, Eulalia Santos and some more. Why should fans go on one womens site if they can have on other sites hundreds of pics of that women and thousend of other women?

At least the women should have the decision what pic may NOT appear in the public when it is not good for her image - but this is difficult to manage.

my opinion - regards, claus

[genex]

Hey Claus, nice to see you posting again. Claus is a good photographer and understands the scene. There's a business case that people have to be cognizant of on how best to work things for them. Sometimes it's good to be on a few select sites to help promote, and it also depends on how good/popular the person is.

[TomNine]

Gene, thanks for sharing the article.

Schneider makes some very valid points and gets some aspects of the industry right, but in general I don't know anyone who operates quite the way he describes. Yes, the models should be careful about who they shoot with and be clear on what they are getting out of it. If a photographer is misrepresenting his skills or what will happen to the material, that isn't good for anybody.

One of the FBBs competing at the Olympia made 8x10 prints of two of my photos of her, and she had two other prints by another photographer. While I was waiting in line last week at the Meet the Olympians event, I saw the fan in front of me buy my prints. That's better validation for what I am doing than I will ever receive from some "real photographer."

The schmoe sites do impact on fan popularity, which is about all the "stardom" most female physique athletes will ever have.

[Tre]

Schneider makes some very valid points...You give him way too much credit.

He's upset, and that's why he's whining.

As was stated by a poster on Unreal, if he and all the so-called 'real photographers' had done a better job of marketing, promoting, and paying the athletes instead of merely lining their own pockets, then the schmotography industry might not be nearly as large as it is today.

[LarryN]

You give him way too much credit.

He's upset, and that's why he's whining.

As was stated by a poster on Unreal, if he and all the so-called 'real photographers' had done a better job of marketing, promoting, and paying the athletes instead of merely lining their own pockets, then the schmotography industry might not be nearly as large as it is today.

Dave is a nice person and a very good photographer too!. He does make some valid points. However, he does not do freelance photography for magazines too, which I find very interesting.

Larry

[Tre]

Dave is a nice person and a very good photographer too!. He does make some valid points.
I think he's a pompous ass and an 'ok' photographer.

He doesn't have a firm grasp of the business of 'schmotography', so that's why there were so many inaccuracies in his rant.

I posted a full rebuttal on Unreal, but won't bore you folks with that here. His 15 minutes are up.

[John Stutz]

So Tre, how do you really feel about Dave?

[BigD]

So Tre, how do you really feel about Dave?

LMAO. Well, at least Tre lets you know where he stands! Gotta love it.

[Tre]

:)

I'm nothing if not honest.

There are those who will whisper that I should've taken the high road in my response(s) to his piece. Some will say that I could've extended a professional courtesy to him by being a bit more civil in expressing my disagreement. Yes, he may have fired the first salvo, but I didn't have to fire back with such intense fury.

The fact of the matter is that my mood on a given day actually dictates how I will fight and which battles I'll take on. He just picked the wrong day to have his article forwarded to me, I suppose. lol

[TomNine]

However nice a guy Schneider is or how wonderful a photographer, the thrust of his article is to warn women against working with anyone outside his little "real photographer" club. Of course Tre should be pissed about this, he's got a family to support.

[James]

lol. some schmotographers (not any contributors in this thread) arent so innocent and have their own 'bag of dirty tricks'. Some of my favorites are:

- Telling girls 'Dont shoot with these guys because you dont want too much content of yourself out there'.

- Booking 'unusually' long shoots with a girl on Sunday, hogging up as much time with her so no one else can shoot with her.

- Booking a 1 hour shoot with a girl and then running longer (like an hour and a half) thus cutting short the next photographers session.:finger:

[muscles_1976]

without this site...I would have zero web exposure and most likely wouldn't have my own site, so much for "dont let one of the big sites use you"....imo, they have only helped me.....so thanks james and gene :cheers:

[mark000]

lol. some schmotographers (not any contributors in this thread) arent so innocent and have their own 'bag of dirty tricks'. Some of my favorites are:

- Telling girls 'Dont shoot with these guys because you dont want too much content of yourself out there'.

- Booking 'unusually' long shoots with a girl on Sunday, hogging up as much time with her so no one else can shoot with her.

- Booking a 1 hour shoot with a girl and then running longer (like an hour and a half) thus cutting short the next photographers session.:finger:


Are you referrring to the WPW crew?

[BigD]

Are you referrring to the WPW crew?


LMAO!!!!!!!!! (I had to make it longer so it would post.) :fitz:

[genex]

I snapped this photo of Claudia Partenza being gang-shot at Worlds:
http://static.flickr.com/122/275791947_228069f84c.jpg

[FelineCougar]

I snapped this photo of Claudia Partenza being gang-shot at Worlds:
http://static.flickr.com/122/275791947_228069f84c.jpg

Genex what difference does it make if all those men took shots of her outside? 3x as many took pics of her when she was on stage. Once we go on stage we are no longer private imo.

If I don't want my picture taken by anyone. I don't go on stage. Simple enough?

[jasons805]

I don't think he posted it to be neg just to show you what's the what. Just an interesting shot.

[FelineCougar]

I didn't think Genex pic was negative. Sorry if i made it sound so. Genex saw a picture and took it. It's interesting. Real life is like that for us fbbs. No matter where we go, people look and gawk and some have cameras.

[BigD]

I didn't think Genex pic was negative. Sorry if i made it sound so. Genex saw a picture and took it. It's interesting. Real life is like that for us fbbs. No matter where we go, people look and gawk and some have cameras.


Good exposure for you! And easier if more photogs can shoot at the same time.

[fivegrand]

At least the women should have the decision what pic may NOT appear in the public when it is not good for her image - but this is difficult to manage.

This is not difficult to manage at all when the model pays the photographer.

[Titania]

This is not difficult to manage at all when the model pays the photographer.
It is even easier to manage when the model IS the photographer ;)
My four biggest passions are muscles and strength, music, computers and photography so I have combined them all together to make my living :)
I've only worked with a couple of other photographers to date and both times they have used my camera with my memory card. We agreed beforehand that we would both maintain copyright to the images and I would have final say over what images were kept and which ones were not.
I've also recently become the 'official' photographer for the powerlifting competitions I do too. When it is my lift, I get a trusted friend to take the shot with the camera set up from the last shot I took (of the previous lifter). That way, I get to pick and choose the shots that get sent to Musclemag and Ironman mags and can avoid 'cringe' shots!! :D