Joanna Thomas Speaks Out

[Maxt]

Some people here probably already know this but in case you do not. Joanna Thomas just started a thread in Muscle Mayhem's Forum where she said she is really angry and depressed about a lot of things in Pro Women's Bodybuilding in the IFBB. She seems to not only be launching a verbal asssault on the IFBB for rescheduling the Ms. Olympia Women's Bodybuilding, but is hinting at her dismay with Betty Pariso the IFBB Women's Bodybuilding Representative and really blasting Bob Chicerillo the IFBB Men's Bodybuilding Rep. There are a lot of issues going back and forth. Some truisms are being spoken. I thought we'd talk about it here. I can say what I think there but I think I am more comfortable saying it here because I do not think my meaning will be misconstrued and I do not think I'll be accused of showing my true colors anyway I know what my true colors are. I think she is losing her cool or having a psychological meltdown and I don't enjoy seeing her get this way. It is like watching a train wreck in progress.

[Amanda Dunbar]

Joanna has really sacrificed a lot in her life to succeed in the sport she loves... I speak to her all the time and she is truely disappointed in what the sport has becoming and is leaning towards. She's put a lot of things on hold in her life in order to really bring a feminine, beautiful physique to the frontlines of fbbing, which hasn't been rewarded in any way in terms of endorsement, contracts, or anything. It is disappointing for her to see her male friends come to LA and within days have a full contract with a supp. company, but you get someone who has an excellent physique, feminine look, as well as a very intelligent, well spoken person and she is pushed to the side... it is extremely disheartening to the women on the pro level. I have listened to her for a few years now talk about this and it's really crossed the line now with the Olympia the way it is... things are getting worse by the day with many more things to come that are just waiting to be exposed. Makes me very negative in terms of what I want to do with my competitive career.... I'm still striving for my best, but who knows how long it'll be on the competitive stage for?

I wish there was something us, as women, could do to change things? It's just turned into a sad sport..........

Amanda

[Maxt]

Try this link http://www.musclemayhem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29271&page=1

[Maxt]

I think perhaps she is working upon some false expectations unfortunately. She accused Bob Chicerillo of being patronizing to her and I don't think he was being like that. I think he was being truthful.

[Maxt]

Makes me very negative in terms of what I want to do with my competitive career.... I'm still striving for my best, but who knows how long it'll be on the competitive stage for?

I wish there was something us, as women, could do to change things? It's just turned into a sad sport..........

Amanda You see Amanda I think she is acting out her frustrations in a way that is very unwise. You are so getting so negative with what you want to do with your competitive career as you say, but you should be happy at looking how you look and being in such great shape if that is what you wanted to achieve. Someday you will be older and you will find out that you cannot look as good as you do so easily as you can when you are 25 or 26 years old. I do not think you will work on the type of false expectations that I think Joanna Thomas has. Some criticisms have been levelled at her that maybe she should have a job and that maybe she shouldn't have all of the nudity on her website the way she does and in the way that she does. I think she has made some mistakes and I think she is trying to take some people down into semi-retirement with her which I do not think is a good thing to do. I think that demonstrates some very bad judgement. She seems to be saying that she is approaching IFBB Pro male bodybuilders with anger in eating places at Venice Beach, California like the Firehouse and then crying about what they tell her. She shouldn't be crying all over the place and she is heading dangerously toward self-pity which is about as undesireable characteristic a person could have outside criminality. For her the scene in Venice Beach, California seems to be way too political for her psychological well being yet it seems to be the place she needs to be to pursue a lot of her projects like the TV documentary?

[Maxt]

May I use an analogy outside of bodybuilding if it is appropriate? The past two weeks on my Direct TV NFL Channel I have been watching this TV show documentary about what it takes to be an NFL Cheerleader for The Miami Dolphins and to me it has been completely interesting television. Hundreds of young girls have been working very hard to condition their bodies and learn very complicated dance routines to become a Miami Dolphin Cheerleader. The TV show documents the process they go through to get past the elimination rounds and to be chosen to be amongst the final Miami Dolphin Cheerleader Squad. There is a complicated judging process used by a small commitee of women to pick the girls for the final Miami Dolphin Cheerleader Squad and it is really hard on everybody concerned with a lot of judgement being on superficialities and intangible criteria just like in women's bodybuilding but they are choosing femininity as a criteria also because the image of a Miami Dolphin Cheerleader and what that represents is very important to the people in charge. So they show the girls that make it and the ones that did not and I'd say they got some things right and some things wrong just as they do when IFBB Judges pick winners for IFBB Women's bodybuilding contests. They also interview the women and the women that got cut express no bitterness and express a grim determination of acceptance and a desire to try harder in the future to make the squad. None of these girls make analogies to the Miami Dolphins Football team and what the players make in terms of wages and salaries. None of these women complain that they must hold jobs outside of being a Miami Dolphins Cheerleader and they had to do their final tryouts in the Aventura shopping mall just like the Ms. Olympia competitors will have to hold their competition in a Las Vegas Expo Hall, yet none of these girls feel demeaned by that. They are grateful for the audience as I may feel many of the ladies who end up sticking with the IFBB and competing in the Ms. Olympia might be.

[Maxt]

Of course I am anxious to hear from more fans, web site administrators and competitors of female bodybuilding figure and fitness about how you feel about this issue. I am also anxious to read about how you feel about how I feel about this issue because you may disagree with me, but please understand I am just being honest about how I feel. I am starting to think there has been an overreaction to the IFBB decision to move the Ms. Olympia to the Expo Hall but I'll concede there are grounds for concern about what comes next. I am not trying to grind out an agenda, win a debate or anything. I love your sport, but I do think femininity is the key and I think they really started to get things right back in 2000. I also do respect the attitude a female bodybuilder would have who said that they do not do bodybuilding for recognition of their achievements by men, but that they do it for self satisfaction. O.K. that is good, but then if that is why you do it, please be satisfied with that self satisfaction and do not make unreasonable demands. I think that there are a lot of women who are doing bodybuilding for the rightest of right reasons and going ahead with it devoid of concerns for outcomes of political issues concerning pro bodybuilding. I think that would be better than what Joanna Thomas may be doing?

[Tre]

Dan & Bob need to get Joanna on the "Pro Bodybuilding Weekly" radio program ASAP.

[Maxt]

What is that all about? I have read of it in one other place, Getbig.com perhaps.

[Maxt]

Yes that was Get Big. If they schedule her, I'll tune in

[Amanda Dunbar]

I agree Tre.....

And second Max, you are allowed to have your own opinion about what she has done for herself, but reality is. She's in a foreign country and needs to make a living... she has done what she has to do to support herself. Whatever you think is right or wrong, she's done it and will continue to. The strong will survive.... she's done that. Why is Denise Masino not getting a bad rap? Don't just isolate Joanna when ALMOST every other fbb out there is doing some sort of nude or seductive photos out there.... this industry is built on bodies.... and SEX sells.... always has, always will.... certain women have found a way to profit off of this..... reality is, what is wrong or bad in your opinion, might be completely fine and insignificant to others....

Is she hurting anyone? Has she done anything really WRONG physically to anyone? no... so this is all opinion. She's making a living, give her some credit here.

Amanda

[Amanda Dunbar]

And maxt - I'm not just saying this as YOU.... i'm referencing everyone that is judging, not just singling you. I mean no offense by what I wrote. ;) Just stating my view.

Amanda

[Maxt]

No offense taken Amanda. I am not so down on Joanna for what she has done-but it is those mistakes she has made that other people are holding her accountable for. I really feel for her now. I think she needs something. True one could be a job, but I wouldn't say that as something to needle her about. I think it has come to a situation where money won't help. I think she needs some guidance, good advice and to take it. She is lucky to have you as a good friend. I have written what I honestly feel in my analogy to comparing female bodybuilders and the Miami Dolphins Cheerleaders by analogies can be problematic. I am searching my soul for the right answers and other than what I've given which was some heartfelt but not brutal honesty, I don't know what more I can say about it that would be a solution other than the negative people should be a little less negative and more optimistic. Thank you for your honesty and appreciation in the thread Amanda. I wish you good luck in your show next month and I'd like to hear from others about this situation that Joanna Thomas has spoken out about. I think that idea about the radio show that Tre had was a pretty good one. Joanna could take calls and speak out more maybe even raising her profile higher. In the end publicity good or bad helps in some way.

[Maxt]

Denise Masino got a tiny bit of bad rap from Bob Chicerillo but by now it is so much writing it is hard to keep up. That is why I wanted to discuss this more here, where I may have a little bit more leeway about what I say without being accused for showing my true colors. I wouldn't want to 'front" for the non-female bodybuilding appreciating bodybuilding audience. I love female bodybuilders and in small but not insignificant ways I support them whenever I can. I admire the people that support female bodybuilders with more cash than I. Muscle Elegance got a little too hard core for me, but I bought some videos from some competitors because I wanted to support them. Now some of the competitors want to come back to women's bodybuilding in the midst of all of this sturm and drang. I say let them and by all means get more pro cards for NPC female bodybuilders that want to go pro still. I am going to write some ideas to Jim Manion and go to some more shows, buy some videos.

[Tre]

I'm posting this to GeneX and Mayhem.

Those of you who don't like the Muscle Elegance factor should take up their concerns with the IFBB and the promoters who've had no trouble at all with taking Denise's sponsorship money for their shows the past several years. Wasn't Muscle Elegance a sponsor of the 2003 Night of Champions? Didn't Bob compete in that event?

The funny thing about all this is that most of the 'haters' are completely clueless when it comes to how the men's contests are marketed. Don't believe me? Do a quick google search for men's bodybuilding contest videos.

[Amanda Dunbar]

I agree Tre... I support MEM. Denise did a lot to support fbbing. Yeah she does revealing pics of women, but they are going to HER for the photos. She did put money back into the sport, so I can't say anything negative about MEM or Denise/Robert's efforts to help bbing.

Amanda

[genex]

Lots of good stuff here. I hope Joanna's OK, but she's an adult and responsible for her own actions. Did you all see that her show is going to be on TLC this month? I am pretty sure it's the BBC thing she taped that doesn't appear to have run in Europe.

gene

[Maxt]

I eagerly await watching this show Gene. Anyhow she may come out of this plus and plus with more publicity either way. I just hate reading such sad stories that say she is crying in Venice, California and the male bodybuilders won't help her. This paints her as victim. The story paints people as bad guys who may not be the bad guys. I think she has more dignity than that but she will bank her cash if she comes out of it a solid business woman because despite her threats I do not think she is going to quit.

[Maxt]

Anyhow Gene I keep reading about how undignified it is to be competing in the Expo Hall. I am reading that to no end. It could end up being that way but I hope not. So I had to watch the Miami Dolphin Cheerleaders have their final tryouts in the Aventura Shopping Mall in North Miami on the NFL Network last night but they made the most of it and were very grateful for the chance to perform in front of people. I am glad that they did not cancel the Ms. Olympia. I first went to the 1987 Ms. Olympia that was on NBC TV broadcast taped from New York City and many more afterwards. I want this thing to keep on going. I hope it works out?

[Maxt]

I agree Tre... I support MEM. Denise did a lot to support fbbing. Yeah she does revealing pics of women, but they are going to HER for the photos. She did put money back into the sport, so I can't say anything negative about MEM or Denise/Robert's efforts to help bbing.

Amanda I always admired the efforts to help bodybuilding made by Robert and Denise Masino. I also talked with Denise Masino about real issues when she operated her booths at shows. She is not superficial. She wanted to help the sport. The pictures were a personal taste issue to me. The artistic nudes in black and white: Yes, I liked that. I once attended an art academy that had classes where drawing with nude models was on the curriculum. Some of the explicit photos, I did not criticize at the time nor do I criticize now. I say in retrospect since in his defense against Joanna Thomas' criticism IFBB Male Pro Bodybuilding representative Bob Chicerillo criticized the explicit photos and the website, that I'll admit that those explicit photos weren't my taste either. That is why I have a very incomplete collection of Muscle Elegance Magazine but a complete collection of Flex Magazines. I was much happier with Flex Magazine when Steve Wennerstrom was free to include Flex N' Femme which was a favorite section for me and I miss reading Women's Physique World.

[Tre]

I am glad that they did not cancel the Ms. Olympia.

I'd rather see it cancelled than to be held in an expo hall. That's so low-rent.

[Maxt]

Will the Ms. Olympia at the Expo Hall be a Tre-Free event?

[Tre]

Will the Ms. Olympia at the Expo Hall be a Tre-Free event?

That part is undecided at this time.

[The Dark Knight]

Why can they get some sponsers and make like a miss world bodybuilding or something?

[Maxt]

I saw her TV show and I think in time her spirit will become rejuvenated.

[sixthstring]

It looks to me like she spoke nothing but the truth. The fact that Chick keeps saying "it's a business" is disgusting. It's that philosophy that ruins every sport and artform that humans come up with. Just be fair damnit. I can't believe people are jumping on her for having a website. Look at any actress in Hollywood and any photospread that they've ever done and you're going to see pictures that are primarily meant to be alluring to men. That's how our society treats women in any field, because it sells. While I dont necessarily believe that it's fair to objectify women that way, I can't blame her for trying to earn a living. It isn't like she's a porn star.

What's most hilarious to me is that some of those delusional Male BB's think they look more "normal" :rolleyes: They're the worst case scenario!

[Tre]

The fact that Chick keeps saying "it's a business" is disgusting. It's that philosophy that ruins every sport and artform that humans come up with. Just be fair damnit.

What's disgusting about his statement? He's just being 100% honest. What's wrong with being honest about the reality?

IFBB bodybuilding *is* a business and that fact is never going to change, so if you subscribe to that, then you'll continue supporting what they're doing. But if you feel that bodybuilding should be about true competition, then you'll seek out something new or different.

I'm with Chick - I hope the IFBB terminates women's bodybuilding, because it doesn't bring in sufficient revenue to the IFBB and its sponsors.

[sixthstring]

Yeah, It's just a disguisting reality that's all. I'm an athlete myself, and I can't imagine anything worse than spectators, myself, or my fellow competitors looking at what we do as business first. That's terrible. It shouldn't be all about the money. I understand that the money is important but love of the sport should come first. If that's not there you're doomed to fail from the beginning. If they(the suits) really cared about womens bodybuilding they'd do what it takes to earn the necessary income, not sit on one hand and flick the competitors off with the other.