Time for a change, at least for me....

[Heather Lee]

I have been going back and forth for quite sometime now with how I feel about bodybuilding....My muscularity, the extreme dieting, the extreme sacrifices....

Starting last year, when I was getting ready for the Nationals, I just felt my heart wasn't into it, at least not the way it was in prior years. I must have flip-flopped at least 15 times when I was dieting. Did I want to do the show or didn't I???? I couldn't really every convince myself that I wanted to, yet I stuck to my prep and did it. 7th place was the result.

There was a time for me back then when I looked in the mirror and I wasn't happy with the way I looked. For those of you who have ever been to my website, there is a section called transitions. Not only does it have all of my contest transitions(the week by week changes), but it has my yearly transitions....you can see how my body changed...every year from 1997 till now. And you know what...I was looking back, looking at the way I looked in 98, 99, 00....and I missed that. I missed being smaller~still muscular, but smaller. I was about 125-130 pounds back then, as opposed to being 155-160 that I was offseason now. Those were the days where I was so proud of my body, proud of the way I looked. I would wear cute little clothes to accentuate the way I looked. I would have abs all year round~there was never really a huge offseason for me. My weight would fluctuate maybe 5 pounds or so. Then I started competing. And came the offseason weight gain and post-contest rebound that, for me, would months to get rid of.

Before my bodybuilding days, I had a very very successful run in bikini contests. I was able to pay my bills by doing them....and all the while, I was training very hard. I wanted to compete in fitness, but after training with a gymnastics instructor for a year, 3 times a week, private lessons, I realized that was never to be. I was already successfully fitness modeling, working with the Michael Scott agency, and featured in Oxygen and Pump. I was also sponsored by MHP as a fitness model...then along came an opportunity. There was an early concept figure show called the Gaspari Fitness Model Search...it was the first figure show before it was really sanctioned. It was run with the 2000 NPC Suburban BBing....and I won first place, competing against about 30 girls~competitive bodybuilders, fitness girls, & normal average girls... So what then? There was no figure division even in the works. Fitness wouldn't be happening for me. So bodybuilding it was. And I did very well at it. I won the Overall at the NJ States in '01, I won the overall at the Jr. USA's in '02, and I took 2nd in the MW class at the '03 USA's....

But somewhere in between 2003 and 2004 I started losing my love for it like I said above. I flip-flopped with my motivation a few times~I had those few moments of extreme desire to do it, but then I would look in the mirror and not like what I was seeing. Sure, I love competing, but any other time during the year I wasn't really happy with the way I looked. I even had a successful run in powerlifting, where I squatted 535, benched 265, and pulled 405. I had the 13th highest squat in any powerlifting federation ever, and had the 4th best squat in 2004....but guess what...it still didn't matter. Neither did competing in Strongman. Yes, I love competing, but I need to be happy with the way I look. Happy with myself....

Why all this now? The recent "going on's" sure aren't helping. In fact, dare I use the expression "putting the nail in the coffin"??

After this whole ordeal with the Olympia being sidelined to a free show, I ask myself "Why am I making all these sacrifices, to turn pro, when there isn't even going to be a stage to compete on for pro's if things keep going the way they are?" The FBBF is a great concept, but will it work??? Who knows? Maybe it will, or maybe it won't. The future will tell. And after watching Joanna Thomas and Supersize She, I have to tell you, it really bummed me out. Plain and Simple. Unbiased. Candid. Real. It was honest, but it really just swayed me even more to not want to do this.


So what now?

I have a few choices....I will always compete, but in what is the question.

Bodybuilding?? If I do decide to step on the stage this year, it will be as a middleweight. I will weigh in under 125. And if I do, it may be my last show. I will have to see how I feel when I am there. I will have to see if competing on the bodybuilding stage does for me what it used to. Maybe I will be happier with myself under 125, and then if that is the case, I can live with the sacrifices. Or maybe it won't.

Maybe I will follow in the footsteps of Cathy Priest and Lisa Bickles and just switch over to figure. Or maybe not. I just don't know right now. I wish there was a little more substance to figure like there is over in Europe, but if this is the way it is here, I guess I will have to live with that. Whether or not I will like it will be determined when the time comes. If the time comes.

I am being very open and honest with you all.... This whole state of affairs in female bodybuilding has really gotten to me. To see something so many work so hard for and make so many sacrifices for to be tossed to the sidelines like it is just trash makes me really sad.

I will keep you updated as I make my decisions.
Thanks for reading.

Heather Lee
http://www.heatherleenj.com
http://www.heatherleenj.com/journal/journal.html

[hans]

Heather - Thanks for posting such an honest explanation of what you're feeling. I'm sorry to hear you are so disillusioned with women's bbing, but it's easy to see why - and what you wrote echoes things that other competitors have said in other threads on here. I know a lot of fans will be sad if you do decide to quit competing, but bbing is definitely a sport where your heart has to be in it 100% in order to put yourself through those extreme sacrifices you mentioned.

The only thing I would add is that although things look pretty depressing right now in fbb, sometimes it takes a crisis like this for things to really change for the better....

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

Hans

[JTx]

Heather, no matter what you decide, you will always be Heather and that's the most important part. Be true to yourself and know you are doing what's best for you.

Hopefully FBB can make a magical turn around thinsg will fall back into place. But always know you have fans and supporters... even if your entering a knitting contest! ;)

JT

[Beenaround]

Heather as I'm writing this I have a tear in my eye.
Well everybody, yes I decided to do the Masters Nationals, cause why?? they dangled that pro card at me!! 20 yrs I've been doing this and I still want that card.
BUT, now, it's the principle of it, hanging in there this long, training hard hours upon hours of weight training, cardio, diet, tanning.
Today I felt the same way, why am I doing this?? I'm going to subject myself to theses judges who will probably dock me for my muscularity, hardness,
cause here we go again, a reduction in size. ( I even tried that last yr and that didn;t work for me either)
Well here it is plane and simple I AM AN ATHLETE!!! which is the"GRANDEST NOBILITY OF THE HUMAN SPIRIT!!!" and theres were it should lie. They are not going to break my spirit!!! I'll do this show and then I plan to go to NABBA or some other assoiciation to compete because I love the performance part of it!!
What the IFBB is going to do is start hurting the NPC, cause of girls like you Heather who are realizing early that it's not worth the hard work, effort and perserverance of the contest prep to have them take our money and run(NPC)
Gene, Tre say Manion is still for the FBBer, well he is getting his pockets lined with our amateaur money also!!!
This is where we need to hurt them!!
Anyway, Heather good luck in whatever you do, it was good to compete with you once(2003 USA) and you know girl, you looked fantastic!!!
Lots of luck and Hugs to you and everybody else

[Amanda Dunbar]

Michelle -

I'm sorry I haven't been able to get back to your email... it was important and wanted to make sure I addressed it properly. So look for that tomorrow... but after seeing this post I wanted to comment real quick.

Heather, I've been waiting for you to say this for some time now. I'm VERY sorry to hear it because you are one of the truely young, feminine, up and coming bbers in the sport. The next generation, we need that... but I DO see where you are coming from. I knew that from that last post that you and I went back and forth in. You need to be happy for you. I support you in your decision, I think FOR YOU, you are making the right decision... you love competing, but compete in what you want to compete in. If that's figure, great, if its bbing, awesome! But being able to fit into those normal clothes and have this stellar body underneith that every woman would kill for is totally reasonable. Sometimes I do question it myself.... but I am stuck in a different situation, this feeds my control issues of weight and I do love muscle so I will keep at it.

We all do this for different reasons, but you have to justify the right/wrong in your own mind. There are MANY consequences to this sport, is it worth it? That is a huge thing...... I'm sure we all question it at some point.

Now Michelle....... girl, get your ass going to the MASTERS. You're 3 weeks out, no second guessing now, leave that until after. lol. You do not have a choice then. I do see where you are coming from with the NABBA thing. How about this...? Wait and see how you do at the Masters Nats... then depending on that result, look at the USA and make your decision. Who knows, maybe your mind could change and stay with NPC. I don't know. Don't base it just on the Jrs and the Olympia decision. If everyone comes in hard and grainy like you do, then it has to be judged?

I, for one, will come in as hard as I CAN... whatever condition I end up in is not for judges sake. lol its for what my body/mind takes me to. lol. because for this one, i'm pushing it as far as I can with diet. Why NOT?!? A few others always come in hard. I have a feeling they'll have to judge it. lol. Just give it til after this show. Michelle, we'll talk there a LOT... I just have a feeling. lol.

Boy, I cannot wait to see you in person! lol.

Michelle, I'll talk soon girly. KEEP YOUR HEAD ON STRAIGHT FOR NOW. Smile and you're almost there. Masters is going to be a GREAT SHOW!!!! Get psyched!

Amanda

[rpflex]

Well everybody, yes I decided to do the Masters Nationals, cause why?? they dangled that pro card at me!! 20 yrs I've been doing this and I still want that card.

Hi Michelle - I'm glad to hear you'll be in Pittsburgh. It will be great to see you again. You can only compete for yourself, so you are the one that has to determine what you feel is your best and let the chips fall where they may. I'd hate to think that our years of training will end up counting against us, but we must prepare for that possibility given the current climate.

Remember the last time we competed? Here's a reminder...

[KyleQuest]

Hey!! Thread Hi Jackers!!! :p It's always about you isn't it? hahaha *JK*

~Rich

[Amanda Dunbar]

Awwwwwwww! What a great pic!!! :) You guys are so cute! More Robin, more!!!

Love candids!

Amanda

[hans]

You can only compete for yourself, so you are the one that has to determine what you feel is your best and let the chips fall where they may.

Robin - Great point, especially right now with all the uncertainty about judging ahead of the USA's. Like Michelle said, trying to reduce size or whatever because you think the judges want that doesn't even usually work because the judging in women's bbing is unpredictable. There have been shows where some competitors have come in soft because that's the way the judging seems to be going, then the judges end up swinging the other way (weird how, although it changes from show to show, there always seems to be a consensus among them, huh?) and giving it to someone who is hard. You just never know. The only thing you can do is to try to come as close as you can to what you think is the ideal - and then wait and see what happens. You might not end up placing where you think you deserve to - like Robin at Nationals last year - but at least you don't feel like you've sold out.

btw cute pic! isn't that CalJoe with Robin and Michelle?

Hans

[Beenaround]

Oh my God Robin!!! I remember that pic!!!! 2000 Nats?? I'm so excited just to compete with you again!!!!! pics ogether later Ok Rich I won't hijack too much, but it always seems to happen!! LOL
Hans I used to go out with Joe and he was the one that got me to come in my best from 99, 2001. And remember Robin starting 2000, 01, they had the change then!!!
Oh well, like Hans said I'll never sell out again, I love my muscle!!!! and girls like Heather should do whats best for them.

[hans]

I'll never sell out again, I love my muscle!!!!

Right on!

Hans

[Amanda Dunbar]

Hans I used to go out with Joe and he was the one that got me to come in my best from 99, 2001.


Michelle -

Ohhhhhhhhhh how many times I've heard that from Joe! lol lol. Gotta love good ole' Joe.

Amanda ;)

[hans]

Ohhhhhhhhhh how many times I've heard that from Joe! lol lol.

Which part? That he got to date Michelle, or that he got her coming in in her best condition? lol

Hans

[Amanda Dunbar]

ha ha ha.

Oh... you know Joe will be at the USA with Angie, so we will get to have a chat then! Where the heck has he been lately? He's normally all over the boards!

Hans, btw... you are hijacking the thread! Please, keep this to Heather!! ;)


Amanda

[genex]

Hi Heather, thanks so much for your post! I think what you are expieriencing are the same feelings a lot of girls have. Some of the newer faces probably just are excited to be doing bodybuilding and competing, and haven't thought it out much past that (which is fine). However, they'll probably get to a point where they'll have think about things are you are.

Like a lot of folks have said, you have do what makes you happy, and what I'm most upset about is when there are people wanting to compete in bodybuilding and they aren't being given good opportunities to pursue that up the chain.

I'll be keeping an eye on how your decision evolves and you know we love you girl!

gene

[Heather Lee]

Thank you all for your support!!!

I was a bit apprehensive coming out with this....And honestly was wondering if I should just let ride for a bit longer to see what I was feeling. Honestly, looking at everything going on with the IFBB, Olympia, etc, led me to make the decision to come out now.

With the emails I have been getting and responses on other boards, I know I am not alone in the way I feel. The difference is that I have decided to act on it. So I guess it is good for the fans to know the current state of FBB'ing is really upsetting a lot of people.

But I have until August, when my usual contest prep would start to decide if my next step will be at the Nationals in the Middleweight class, competingunder 125, or if it will be on the stage in 2006 in figure.

Whatever it may be, again, I thank you for your overwhelming support. And for making this a sticky!!! LOL!

Heather Lee
http://www.heatherleenj.com
http://www.heatherleenj.com/journal/journal.html

[Imystify]

I was a bit apprehensive coming out with this.... <snip> The difference is that I have decided to act on it.

being a one time competitor, maybe to do it again but presenting the body I like, I adore that you are being so open and decisive. You are accomplished and I've thought so since i saw your web some time back, and your decisive nature on this is part of the why. Kudos, leadership skills you got girl! It would be the happiest day if all the women would present the body they like/like living in and let the chips fall where they may, redefine from the inside out.

[JTx]

I'm not 100% sure but I believe it was the 2002 NPC Jr USA that I met Heather for a brief moment. And a brief moment it was. Standying in the lobby after prejudging I saw Heather walking across the room. I am sure she was headed somewhere specific, just try to get from point A to point B. As she passed by I held out my hand just to say hello. In fact I remember saying something like "I know you're in a hurry but I just wanted to say hello."

Well instead of being polite and shaking my hand and moving on, Heather came to a complete stop. She shook my hand and chatted for a few moments. As outstanding as her physique was, my vision never left Heather's eyes and smile. For those few moments that she was taking out of her shcedule she was staanding there (in the moment so to speak) talking to my friend an I. She left with a quick hug and to this day whenever I think of Heather I think of her outstanding physique second. The first thing I think of is her charm and warm and dedication... oh and the mesmorizing eyes of course!

.

[Heather Lee]

But I have until August, when my usual contest prep would start to decide if my next step will be at the Nationals in the Middleweight class, competing under 125, or if it will be on the stage in 2006 in figure.

Heather Lee


My decision has been made...
I will be at the Nationals, ideally as a middleweight, but if my best package comes as a LHW, so be it.

Heather Lee

http://www.heatherleenj.com
http://www.heatherleenj.com/journal/journal.html

[genex]

That's great news Heather! Can't wait to see you on stage again.

[Nath.]

My decision has been made...
I will be at the Nationals, ideally as a middleweight, but if my best package comes as a LHW, so be it.
[/url]

That is all good news!!!

Good luck girl! :D

[Halo]

Awesome Heather!!

[ibarramedia]

Good luck Heather. I'm sure you will win the middleweights or at least do very well. You are a very good competitor with a great personality and smashing legs. I remember seeing a picture of you last year wearing jean shorts and the size and definition of your legs was unbelievable. Very irresistible. i wish you could show pictures of your leg development and transitions over the years.

I just want you to know that i support everything that you do. Take care now.

[noah]

Heather:

I just to say that FBB needs girls like u, beautiful and big. You have such a great body, it would be a waste if you compete in Figure, Fitness or Strong compt.

I know that at the end is your call but just keep in mind that at least one fan (and I think I'm not alone in this one) would really appreciate if you stay in BB.

[CalJoe]

Hi Michelle - I'm glad to hear you'll be in Pittsburgh. It will be great to see you again. You can only compete for yourself, so you are the one that has to determine what you feel is your best and let the chips fall where they may. I'd hate to think that our years of training will end up counting against us, but we must prepare for that possibility given the current climate.

Remember the last time we competed? Here's a reminder...
Thanks for the pic Robin....

[CalJoe]

ha ha ha.

Oh... you know Joe will be at the USA with Angie, so we will get to have a chat then! Where the heck has he been lately? He's normally all over the boards!

Hans, btw... you are hijacking the thread! Please, keep this to Heather!! ;)


Amanda
I'll be in Vegas with Angie. Maybe we'll run into each other at the show. Angie told me about the pic from Robin, so I had to come in here and check it out. Way to go Robin. See you in Vegas Michelle. I wish you and Robin all the best at Masters' Nationals.

[CalJoe]

Robin - Great point, especially right now with all the uncertainty about judging ahead of the USA's. Like Michelle said, trying to reduce size or whatever because you think the judges want that doesn't even usually work because the judging in women's bbing is unpredictable. There have been shows where some competitors have come in soft because that's the way the judging seems to be going, then the judges end up swinging the other way (weird how, although it changes from show to show, there always seems to be a consensus among them, huh?) and giving it to someone who is hard. You just never know. The only thing you can do is to try to come as close as you can to what you think is the ideal - and then wait and see what happens. You might not end up placing where you think you deserve to - like Robin at Nationals last year - but at least you don't feel like you've sold out.

btw cute pic! isn't that CalJoe with Robin and Michelle?

HansGood job of spotting me Hans. See you in Vegas.

[CalJoe]

I have been going back and forth for quite sometime now with how I feel about bodybuilding....My muscularity, the extreme dieting, the extreme sacrifices....

Starting last year, when I was getting ready for the Nationals, I just felt my heart wasn't into it, at least not the way it was in prior years. I must have flip-flopped at least 15 times when I was dieting. Did I want to do the show or didn't I???? I couldn't really every convince myself that I wanted to, yet I stuck to my prep and did it. 7th place was the result.

There was a time for me back then when I looked in the mirror and I wasn't happy with the way I looked. For those of you who have ever been to my website, there is a section called transitions. Not only does it have all of my contest transitions(the week by week changes), but it has my yearly transitions....you can see how my body changed...every year from 1997 till now. And you know what...I was looking back, looking at the way I looked in 98, 99, 00....and I missed that. I missed being smaller~still muscular, but smaller. I was about 125-130 pounds back then, as opposed to being 155-160 that I was offseason now. Those were the days where I was so proud of my body, proud of the way I looked. I would wear cute little clothes to accentuate the way I looked. I would have abs all year round~there was never really a huge offseason for me. My weight would fluctuate maybe 5 pounds or so. Then I started competing. And came the offseason weight gain and post-contest rebound that, for me, would months to get rid of.

Before my bodybuilding days, I had a very very successful run in bikini contests. I was able to pay my bills by doing them....and all the while, I was training very hard. I wanted to compete in fitness, but after training with a gymnastics instructor for a year, 3 times a week, private lessons, I realized that was never to be. I was already successfully fitness modeling, working with the Michael Scott agency, and featured in Oxygen and Pump. I was also sponsored by MHP as a fitness model...then along came an opportunity. There was an early concept figure show called the Gaspari Fitness Model Search...it was the first figure show before it was really sanctioned. It was run with the 2000 NPC Suburban BBing....and I won first place, competing against about 30 girls~competitive bodybuilders, fitness girls, & normal average girls... So what then? There was no figure division even in the works. Fitness wouldn't be happening for me. So bodybuilding it was. And I did very well at it. I won the Overall at the NJ States in '01, I won the overall at the Jr. USA's in '02, and I took 2nd in the MW class at the '03 USA's....

But somewhere in between 2003 and 2004 I started losing my love for it like I said above. I flip-flopped with my motivation a few times~I had those few moments of extreme desire to do it, but then I would look in the mirror and not like what I was seeing. Sure, I love competing, but any other time during the year I wasn't really happy with the way I looked. I even had a successful run in powerlifting, where I squatted 535, benched 265, and pulled 405. I had the 13th highest squat in any powerlifting federation ever, and had the 4th best squat in 2004....but guess what...it still didn't matter. Neither did competing in Strongman. Yes, I love competing, but I need to be happy with the way I look. Happy with myself....

Why all this now? The recent "going on's" sure aren't helping. In fact, dare I use the expression "putting the nail in the coffin"??

After this whole ordeal with the Olympia being sidelined to a free show, I ask myself "Why am I making all these sacrifices, to turn pro, when there isn't even going to be a stage to compete on for pro's if things keep going the way they are?" The FBBF is a great concept, but will it work??? Who knows? Maybe it will, or maybe it won't. The future will tell. And after watching Joanna Thomas and Supersize She, I have to tell you, it really bummed me out. Plain and Simple. Unbiased. Candid. Real. It was honest, but it really just swayed me even more to not want to do this.


So what now?

I have a few choices....I will always compete, but in what is the question.

Bodybuilding?? If I do decide to step on the stage this year, it will be as a middleweight. I will weigh in under 125. And if I do, it may be my last show. I will have to see how I feel when I am there. I will have to see if competing on the bodybuilding stage does for me what it used to. Maybe I will be happier with myself under 125, and then if that is the case, I can live with the sacrifices. Or maybe it won't.

Maybe I will follow in the footsteps of Cathy Priest and Lisa Bickles and just switch over to figure. Or maybe not. I just don't know right now. I wish there was a little more substance to figure like there is over in Europe, but if this is the way it is here, I guess I will have to live with that. Whether or not I will like it will be determined when the time comes. If the time comes.

I am being very open and honest with you all.... This whole state of affairs in female bodybuilding has really gotten to me. To see something so many work so hard for and make so many sacrifices for to be tossed to the sidelines like it is just trash makes me really sad.

I will keep you updated as I make my decisions.
Thanks for reading.

Heather Lee
http://www.heatherleenj.com
http://www.heatherleenj.com/journal/journal.html
First of all I apologize if I appear to hijack your thread. Secondly, I can see where you're coming from. This sport has been in a state of confusion since it's beginning, or so it seems. Certainly it would be impossible for you to enjoy competing if you felt so conflicted about it. It's sad to see quality competitors leave the scene, and I think it happens way to often. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Heather Lee]

First of all I apologize if I appear to hijack your thread. Secondly, I can see where you're coming from. This sport has been in a state of confusion since it's beginning, or so it seems. Certainly it would be impossible for you to enjoy competing if you felt so conflicted about it. It's sad to see quality competitors leave the scene, and I think it happens way to often. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

LOL! You thread hijacker!!! :p
No harm done!

If you scroll back to the second page, I made my decision~I will be competing in November at the Nats...In BODYBUILDING!!! :)

I may try for middleweights, but if my best package comes as a LHW, so be it!


And thank you all so much for the support! I will be out in Vegas supporting my best friend~Elena Seiple~so if you see me say HELLO!

Plus I spoke to James last night~I will be on the FTV webcam show sunday at 11:00!!! Should be fun!

Heather Lee
http://www.heatherleenj.com
http://www.heatherleenj.com/journal/journal.html

[Maxt]

What will you do if you win?

[genex]

She'll be happy I am sure, but she'll be happy even if she doesn't I would suspect b/c she's doing it for herself and not for anyone else :)

[Heather Lee]

She'll be happy I am sure, but she'll be happy even if she doesn't I would suspect b/c she's doing it for herself and not for anyone else :)

LOL!!!
You are 100 percent correct Gene!!! But I still want that win!!!!!!!! :D

[CalJoe]

LOL! You thread hijacker!!! :p
No harm done!

If you scroll back to the second page, I made my decision~I will be competing in November at the Nats...In BODYBUILDING!!! :)

I may try for middleweights, but if my best package comes as a LHW, so be it!


And thank you all so much for the support! I will be out in Vegas supporting my best friend~Elena Seiple~so if you see me say HELLO!

Plus I spoke to James last night~I will be on the FTV webcam show sunday at 11:00!!! Should be fun!

Heather Lee
http://www.heatherleenj.com
http://www.heatherleenj.com/journal/journal.html
I apologize for not totally getting what you said. Well, I'm glad you've decided to keep competing. I think the right perspective is to do it for yourself. If you try to compete by altering your physique to every whim the NPC decides on you'll drive yourself nuts. The only thing that matters is that you're satisfied with your efforts.

[Heather Lee]

I apologize for not totally getting what you said. Well, I'm glad you've decided to keep competing. I think the right perspective is to do it for yourself. If you try to compete by altering your physique to every whim the NPC decides on you'll drive yourself nuts. The only thing that matters is that you're satisfied with your efforts.

:) No apologies necessary!!!
Thanks sweetie!


Heather Lee
http://www.heatherleenj.com
http://www.heatherleenj.com/journal/journal.html

[CalJoe]

:) No apologies necessary!!!
Thanks sweetie!


Heather Lee
http://www.heatherleenj.com
http://www.heatherleenj.com/journal/journal.html
No,,,,thank you. :)

[MarkH]

The world is a better place because Heather has changed her mind on quitting.

[jason256]

Hi Heather

I know inconsistency is the hobgoblin of small minds like mine but still, how can you slam the USA decision re. Amanda while at the same time have a whole thread dedicated to your desire to downsize yourself due to your concerns about the direction that FBB is going?

I personally love muscle mass and think Elena looked fantastic but if FBB is dedicated to achieving a feminine physique ideal, as opposed to going the way of male BB where total mass is ALL that matters, there is no way she should have been scored above Amanda. Elena is very pretty but basically has a ripped version of a powerlifters body (which is how she trained). Amanda had less muscle mass but had the best muscle shape (particularly in how they flowed into each other) and symmetry since Cory and was ripped.

I am sorry to single yourself out for being inconsistent, in fact there have been almost identical laments to yours about being too big by every other FBB who has slammed Amanda for being too small (your thread just happened to be conveniently juxtaposed with the USA thread). However I think you and the other FBB's who have participated in Sl-amanda-ing really should step back and think about what this says about what you REALLY want to see in FBB. If it is freaky size, which I personally prefer, then that is the standard that you should all push for in the judging. If it is shape and symmetry then push for that. However if as a group you continue to constantly contradict yourself then do not be surprised about the 'inconsistency' of the judging - it is only reflecting your own lack of clarity on the issue.

Best Regards

Jason25

( PS - you look great both 'supersized' and 'downsized'

[Heather Lee]

Hi Heather

I know inconsistency is the hobgoblin of small minds like mine but still, how can you slam the USA decision re. Amanda while at the same time have a whole thread dedicated to your desire to downsize yourself due to your concerns about the direction that FBB is going?

I personally love muscle mass and think Elena looked fantastic but if FBB is dedicated to achieving a feminine physique ideal, as opposed to going the way of male BB where total mass is ALL that matters, there is no way she should have been scored above Amanda. Elena is very pretty but basically has a ripped version of a powerlifters body (which is how she trained). Amanda had less muscle mass but had the best muscle shape (particularly in how they flowed into each other) and symmetry since Cory and was ripped.

I am sorry to single yourself out for being inconsistent, in fact there have been almost identical laments to yours about being too big by every other FBB who has slammed Amanda for being too small (your thread just happened to be conveniently juxtaposed with the USA thread). However I think you and the other FBB's who have participated in Sl-amanda-ing really should step back and think about what this says about what you REALLY want to see in FBB. If it is freaky size, which I personally prefer, then that is the standard that you should all push for in the judging. If it is shape and symmetry then push for that. However if as a group you continue to constantly contradict yourself then do not be surprised about the 'inconsistency' of the judging - it is only reflecting your own lack of clarity on the issue.

Best Regards

Jason25

( PS - you look great both 'supersized' and 'downsized'

If you go back and read what I was saying closely then you would see that when I was talking about downsizing myself and my concerns, it was not with the way FBB was going, not the size of the girls, etc in the amatures.... It was with the Pro-division going nowhere fast. And I don't mean the girls, I mean the people in charge. And how in a few years there will be no womens pro division with the direction the promoters seem to be moving. That was what had me questioning my sacrifices.



Taking nothing away from Amanda(it was the judges who decided her placing)
Elena was clearly the best in the LHW division in my opinion. I could understand the judging a bit better had Elena been out of the top 5. Then I could say "Hey, you know what, they are looking for a smaller more streamlined look that was softer then what Elena was". Every other girl in the top 5 had a look that was more like Amanda then Elena. Hence Christine Sabo and Debbie Bramwell placing so low. But why throw Elena where she was? And why tell her last year to come in with better legs and harder, then place her the same as they did in 2004. 2nd...I could make sense of the judges and the pattern if Elena was placed right alongside Debbie and Christine.

I really think my decisions and the way I feel about the USAs have nothing to do with one another.

[CalJoe]

If you go back and read what I was saying closely then you would see that when I was talking about downsizing myself and my concerns, it was not with the way FBB was going, not the size of the girls, etc in the amatures.... It was with the Pro-division going nowhere fast. And I don't mean the girls, I mean the people in charge. And how in a few years there will be no womens pro division with the direction the promoters seem to be moving. That was what had me questioning my sacrifices.



Taking nothing away from Amanda(it was the judges who decided her placing)
Elena was clearly the best in the LHW division in my opinion. I could understand the judging a bit better had Elena been out of the top 5. Then I could say "Hey, you know what, they are looking for a smaller more streamlined look that was softer then what Elena was". Every other girl in the top 5 had a look that was more like Amanda then Elena. Hence Christine Sabo and Debbie Bramwell placing so low. But why throw Elena where she was? And why tell her last year to come in with better legs and harder, then place her the same as they did in 2004. 2nd...I could make sense of the judges and the pattern if Elena was placed right alongside Debbie and Christine.

I really think my decisions and the way I feel about the USAs have nothing to do with one another.
I totally agree with you Heather. I don't want to repeat what I said, but you can read it in the USA thread. My comments appear somewhere around page13-15. You hit the nail on the head regarding the inconsistency of Elena's placing, and the message it's sending. I feel as though Angie greatly represents what the NPC is looking for, but I feel that her being so unknown doesn't help. She will win people over, because she is so personable, and everyone I know who meets her really likes her and say nothing but great things about her.

[jason256]

Hi Heather

Thanx for your clarifying response.

After going through a couple of blogs and reading the comments from you and most of the other FBB's regarding the USA decision it is clear that the majority of you want to see HUGE girls on stage, independent of the health and other issues (marketibility, etc) that lead you to want to downsize.

I think that's great but it is always going to conflict with the desire of the amateur and pro federations to make money with main stream advertising (which may be absurd anyway but they seem incapable of dropping it as a goal), and therefore lead to inconsistent judging at best since the judge panels themselves are not all FBB's or supporters.

Therefore the only solution I can see (for both amateur and pro events) is to find a new sponsoring group or form one yourselves. This is discussed on several other threads here and elsewhere so I'll leave it at that.

Thanx again for responding and best of luck at the Nationals

Jason256

[Heather Lee]

After going through a couple of blogs and reading the comments from you and most of the other FBB's regarding the USA decision it is clear that the majority of you want to see HUGE girls on stage, independent of the health and other issues (marketibility, etc) that lead you to want to downsize.
Jason256
???I have no clue where you would come to this conclusion from.

[jason256]

Hi Heather

Regarding the main conclusion (wanting the judging to favor HUGE girls) I think the entire Elena vs Amanda discussion on this blog and many other sites makes this clear. Elena was the most densely muscular amateur FBB at her height ever to compete (I challenge you or anyone on this blog to find a photo of any amateur more muscular and with her level of conditioning). Amanda had some of the best aesthetics (symmetry, muscle shape abd balance, line) since Cory Everson while still retaining excellent (but not nearly Elena's level) muscularity and condition. The response from yourself and FBBs has favored Elena at least 10:1. Ergo: muscle rules!

Regarding the secondary conclusion (independent of health and marketability issues) you made it clear in the beginning of this thread that to become huge you have had to sacrifice commercial modeling and representation opportunities that you had before you went for competitive FBB. The health risks involved in the extreme dieting, weight swings, and supplementation needed are well documented in many places. Even you have commented on other forums how crappy you have felt post contest.

Where I agree I misunderstood you is that you never actually said on this thread that FBB should reward a less extreme more feminine look ( you only stated it as your preference). However many other FBBs have made this point in the context of reducing the 'sacrifices' needed for the sport. However I believe you and most of the other FBBs who have commented on the USAs have made it clear to almost everyone (except maybe yourselves) that you want judging to effectively be the same as for male body building (bigger is better and biggest is best). I have no objection to this goal - its only fair - but to achieve it FBB competitors like yourself have to make this clear to the judges and other powers that be (even if it means forming new federations). As long as their is constant oscillations among the FBB community on what look should be strived for the judging will remain inconsistent, even independent of any ulterior motive by promoters.

Best Regards

Jason256

[Tre]

1) Competitive bodybuilding is about creating illusions. You have to understand that basic premise or you won't be able to grasp the discussion at all.

2) There was nothing "huge" about Elena, with the possible exception of her renown biceps, and there was certainly nothing "unfeminine" about her. The fact that she was more muscular than Amanda in certain bodyparts doesn't make her any more "huge" than Amanda is.

3) Two pro women have died in less than a year-and-a-half. It's probably just coincidence, but when you couple their deaths with the number of pro men who've also passed during that same time period, it definitely gives us all a reason to take pause.

4) I will always be amazed by the human potential and by those who live in pursuit of it.

[jason256]

Hi Tre

I agree that Elena is a feminine woman (she has a very pretty face and
feminine attitude) but for an FBB her height she is hUGE (with a small h). If she were 5 8 or 5 9 she would be well over 180 lbs. If you really disagree then take the photo challenge. From your vast files post a photo of a single FBB of Elena's height (in the amateur ranks) with greater muscle mass at an equivalent level of conditioning.

I do not disagree with you that it amazing to see athletes like Elena pushing the boundary of human potential. Clearly most of the FBBs on this site agree. I also agree with Heather and others that the NPC and IFBB have inconsistent judging. I am just taking what I see (albeit with no support) as the logical next step - that there should be body female building sanctioning bodies where muscularity and definition is the clear goal. However until all the second guessing by the women who want to compete at this level about being too big/unfeminine or making too many sacrifices is stopped this goal will never be achieved.

Jason256

[ibarramedia]

3) Two pro women have died in less than a year-and-a-half. It's probably just coincidence, but when you couple their deaths with the number of pro men who've also passed during that same time period, it definitely gives us all a reason to take pause.


I think 3 Marianna Komlos from breast cancer, Claudia Bianchi from her sleep, and now Fannie Barrios from aneurysm/and/ or stroke. And you are right by assuming it probably is coincidence. We cannot say it was because of dubious means and i don't have to spell it out. Unless there is clear and convincing evidence that says the causes of death was due to things people did to themselves for the sport. But yeah, it puts things into perspective. last thing we need is for the public to make assumptions without establishing a direct link to evidence of thier deaths.

[ibarramedia]

Hi Tre

I agree that Elena is a feminine woman (she has a very pretty face and
feminine attitude) but for an FBB her height she is hUGE (with a small h). If she were 5 8 or 5 9 she would be well over 180 lbs. If you really disagree then take the photo challenge. From your vast files post a photo of a single FBB of Elena's height (in the amateur ranks) with greater muscle mass at an equivalent level of conditioning.

I do not disagree with you that it amazing to see athletes like Elena pushing the boundary of human potential. Clearly most of the FBBs on this site agree. I also agree with Heather and others that the NPC and IFBB have inconsistent judging. I am just taking what I see (albeit with no support) as the logical next step - that there should be body female building sanctioning bodies where muscularity and definition is the clear goal. However until all the second guessing by the women who want to compete at this level about being too big/unfeminine or making too many sacrifices is stopped this goal will never be achieved.

Jason256

Sue Price from either 94,95 or 96 was big and ripped to shreds and she was a lightweight. Susan Myers from 1988 to a lesser extent had tremendous arms, the biceps and triceps, and her leg development was awesome. She was also a lightweight. I'm sure Tre or any of the guys can pull out their pictures.

[jason256]

Hi Ibarra

I pulled out some old pictures I had of both of them.

Elena has it hands down over Sue Myers. Sue Price

was close but only as a pro, not an amateur. Elena

has much larger upper arms than SP and the rest of her

physique is at least as muscular and defined.

Jason256

[Holly]

Robin, Michelle, Gerri, Trudi, Denise and everyone that was so fantastic to me at my first Nationals (the Masters)- I just want to say thank you for letting me hang out and bask in your glow!! I completely enjoyed my experience at the show and was excited about doing the USA's the next week with some of you. I was so un-prepared for the GIANT step up on to the stage with all of you, but I am proud to say I was there.
Thanks again for everything. My new friends, Michelle and Gerri mean so much to me!

Holly (the Vegas fire girl)

[bigbrother]

To Heather, good luck whatever you choose to do
To Michelle - you are 1 of the most underrated fbb of all times. As Robin Parker was before turning pro this year.
I really love your physique and surely NABBA needs women like you to keep fbb alive, while IFBB is killing it

[Tre]

To Michelle - you are 1 of the most underrated fbb of all times. As Robin Parker was before turning pro this year.

Amen to that, BigBrother.