Video Clip Question

[wekes989]

Hello there everyone,

I've frequented the paysites for fbb'ing for the past few years now, and although the photos were of moderate interest to me, it was always the prospect of downloading the video clips to my hard drive that made me a member. This was the case with every site, including this one.

Then came YouTube, which is obviously a massive issue. Alot of the copyrighted content that was a part of these sites is now made available on that website, and I find myself treading on the line instead of jumping to one side or the other.

Yes, I'm one of those lowly sloths who considered YouTube to be my online savior when I discovered it last June, checking out content that I normally would have had to pay for on HerBiceps, Awefilms, WPWPlatinumTV, FemFlex, FtVideo, etc. etc. etc. I knew it was wrong, much like being a Kazaa member and downloading songs from certain albums that I would feel less inclined to spend money on now that I've gotten half of it for free. Many of us do it, and it's not right, but it's difficult to turn away from the opportunity.

Then five and ten-minute sections of the FTVideo for the Emmanuela Pintus dvd began showing up on there, and that crossed the line for me. It's nice to see guys commenting on how transfixed they were watching segments from the dvd that were posted on YouTube (and I'm sure everyone around here knows this already, but if you're a fan of hers, it's pretty much your duty to own that dvd), but at the same time I was like, "Hey! I paid sixty bucks for that! Avert your eyes, you cheap gluttons!" YouTube managed to be a blessing and a curse (or at least an annoyance) for me.

Now to the video clip issue. I've heard a little bit here (I haven't had the chance to read every possible post on this topic) and another pay site that measures need to be taken as a means of protecting whatever profit the sites can make from the videos that they post. Has it already begun? I've had problems checking out free clip samples from a couple of these sites already (not the one here), url's being blocked and such, and I'm not sure if there's a way around this problem.

Okay, long story short: the hundreds of dollars that I've invested into these paysites over the past years has been completely geared towards loading the video clips onto my hard drive. The clips I've downloaded have never been shared with anyone, on YouTube or anywhere else for that matter. If a paysite is reconstructed in such a way that I can't continue to do this, then I have no reason to join another pay site again.

PLEASE tell me I'm way off on this; I've only been able to pick up little things here and there over the past couple of days, but this sounds cataclysmic for me. I know YouTube is being a real pain in the ass for the sites financially, but isn't there some other way that this can be addressed without penalizing the members of the paysites by prohibiting a clip from being downloaded to their hard drive?

Okay, I'm done. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks for reading.

[Duckbump]

It's a dog eat dog world out there. Whatcha gonna do?

[TriBiSigh]

I agree with all you say.

Content owners need to check YouTube every day for illegal posts - and immediately start proceedings to get pirates banned. This is happening already - most of the good stuff is only on there for a few days. Dunno if YouTube can ban users permanently by IP address - that might help prevent the same guys popping up again with a new ID.

The other way is peer pressure - if you see a pirate clip try posting a polite comment pointing out that by sharing paysite clips the poster is depriving the girls of the small income they receive. In many cases I think the posters are avid fans who just haven't thought through the consequences of their actions.

Fortunately YouTube picture quality is still very poor - this has encouraged paysites to move up to HD quality - which is a good thing for us fans.

As for paysites using DRM. No thanks. I won't be joining any that do. I'm not a thief and I like the freedom to keep clips on multiple PCs.

[Tre]

Fortunately YouTube picture quality is still very poor - this has encouraged paysites to move up to HD quality...Are you kidding?

You think the poor quality of YouTube is what has led some sites to begin featuring HD video??

:wtf:

[Tre]

Regarding DRM technologies, given the rampant explosion in piracy and file-sharing over the past couple of years, this is a very real prospect for the future in our industry.

Right now, on eBay, there are multiple individuals who've stolen our content and created their own brands with it. Talk about balls! That's the kind of thing that gets people killed in some parts of the world.

I have not yet experimented with DRM, but it is under consideration. You'd still able to download and save as much material as you'd like from the site, but it would only be viewable during the months in which your license is active. I know it sounds unfair to keep having to pay for something over and over, but if you consider the sheer volume of stuff you get for $10-20, it's really a bargain. Maybe we could offer a discounted rate on all archived material. That is, the license to view new material would be the regular monthly rate, but to keep your downloaded files viewable would cost considerably less. Just an idea.

It's up to the fans to police themselves. I know I'm not alone in saying that we (producers) appreciate the business of those who deal with us honestly and fairly, but the number of people ripping us off has grown exponentially. That's not something that can be resolved with 'daily monitoring' of eBay and all the file-sharing sites. If we followed your suggestion, TriBiSigh, nothing new would ever be posted, because we'd be so bogged down with chasing the pirates and file-sharers.

I appreciate reading you guys' feedback, so please do keep it up. But you have to understand that, unless we can protect our interests, we will not be able to remain in business and if it collapses, then we all lose out.

[James]

hey,
i moved this to industry discussion because it's kind of a hot industry topic.

thanks for your note. Definatly a 'consumer perspective' on the new FTV members gallery and things in general. First , I would like to say that I did not know that the vids were not downloadable. I just let the company who was re-doing the website to take the lead on the best coarse of actions. They are experienced with Adult websites, so I let them decide the best coarse of action.. I found out when ViceClown noted in in another thread. I only say that to let you know that I really dont care if you can download vids or not, but to be honest, I am glad they are protecting the content.

That being said, I know that all of the major female muscle websites (there are about 4 or 5) or 'McMuscle Sites' as I call them (Tre, please credit me for that term) are taking a hit in membership. Here is a piece of advice for you guys going after Youtube: Removing all of your content from Youtube will NOT increase your membership. The Female Muscle Media industry is about 4 or 5 years behind the Adult Industry. The Adult Industry took a big hit because there was a glut of content. And that is what we are seeing now. Lets face it, some of the major FBB's out there are busy as hell after a show because there are tons of photographers shooting you. I mean, we got 2 dozen guys shooting Christine Moore doing a double bicep 900 times .. whatever. You think people arent bored with that??

As far as the thread starter, sorry you cant save the clips, but my focus is to automate the process of the members area. I'm moving on to other stuff because by your own admission, I cannot win. You wont be a member because you cant save clips, but you wont be a member because you will get satisfied by youtube. Life goes on. I'm already way ahead of you and moving on to bigger and better things.

I applaud Tre for taking the HD initiave. I dont think it's a trend, but what do I know?? I totally missed the boat on payperview and trying to catch up, so I dont profess to be any kind of guru. But this dog had a few tricks and I'm keeping my mouth shut because I know you guys watch me like a hawk. *cough webcam cough*

[wekes989]

Just for sake of clarity, the problems I've had with downloading video clips were not from ftvideo.com. They were from other sites (as I had stated in the initial post).

Also, I don't remember stating I won't be a member because I will get satisfied by youtube. That site has its limitations.

The point of the post was expressing concern that current and future members of paysites would be the ones taking the fall because of the disregard for copyright infringement that some have shown by uploading to YouTube. I'm willing to bet that I'm not the only one who decided to join a saite one day because of the ability to download (and keep past membership) a video clip.

[ViceClown]

James, thanks for the great post. I think that the "not saving clips" thing is a big deal. Since the old site so easily let you save clips it's what the customers have come to expect. Removing that ability with no warning is kind of unfair in my opinion. All things being equal, it's like we get less value for the money. I know I know... there are daily updates now and other improvements but not being able to watch the clips when we want on our own machines is a pretty big downer. That would be a deal breaker for me.

Moreover, from a technical perspective you are relying on folks' web browsers to have MIME types properly setup to view mpegs properly. There is a good chance that settings could get screwed up and the clips stop working for some people.

As a professional web developer I've seen the piracy and I know what the challenges are. It's not fair, though, to sort of make the security incumbant on the customers. If you'de like to implement a DRM situation like Tre talked about that would be fine. At least then it's a controlled environment. with explicit terms of service. Leaving the system half-broken as it is doesn't seem like a very professional way to leave things.

I understand that the site just launched and there are lots of things to get to. You've done a great job. I Think that this situation should fall close to the top of the priority list, though.

Thanks for the contributions, everyone. James, Im happy to help or add more advice. You've done a nice job with the site so don't take this feedback the wrong way.

Cheers!

[HDPhysiques]

I applaud Tre for taking the HD initiave. I dont think it's a trend, but what do I know?? I totally missed the boat on payperview and trying to catch up, so I dont profess to be any kind of guru. But this dog had a few tricks and I'm keeping my mouth shut because I know you guys watch me like a hawk. *cough webcam cough*

Just for clarification, James.... the owners of HDPhysiques.com took the HD initiative while employed at Femflex. Not until we left Femflex, and formed HDPhysiques did Tre' begin to see that HD was worthwhile. Since then he's been trying to copy and play catch up, just like they did with webcam copying your system. But much like you, always innovating and not looking backwards, we are continuing to maintain our lead in the high-end video market by investing in superior equipment and offering higher resolution frame sizes and bit rates.

Your new site looks terrific! Good luck trying to find that middle ground between security and access for customers. It's an issue that is important to all site owners.

[jasons805]

Does anyone know what they are talking about in here? Seems like a few are on the wrong page. James do you even know how your pay site works? Do you even care anymore? I am still unclear if you can save videos or not.

[James]

Just for clarification, James.... the owners of HDPhysiques.com took the HD initiative while employed at Femflex. Not until we left Femflex, and formed HDPhysiques did Tre' begin to see that HD was worthwhile. Since then he's been trying to copy and play catch up, just like they did with webcam copying your system. But much like you, always innovating and not looking backwards, we are continuing to maintain our lead in the high-end video market by investing in superior equipment and offering higher resolution frame sizes and bit rates.

Your new site looks terrific! Good luck trying to find that middle ground between security and access for customers. It's an issue that is important to all site owners.

Hey HDPhysiques. Welcome to the forums and your input is much appreciated. Thank you for the clarification about your site. The quality of the vids are stunning. http://www.hdphysiques.com/ They almost look like raw AVI's that are just captured. Quite a technical acheivment and keep us posted about your progress for 2007.

[JTx]

Oh c'mon James.... not even a hint? You just KNOW you can trust all of us not to steal your ideas!! :woot:

[TriBiSigh]

Are you kidding?

You think the poor quality of YouTube is what has led some sites to begin featuring HD video??

:wtf:
Yes. Who's gonna pay for overcompressed 320 x 240 when you can get tonnes of it for free on YouTube? HD's a good way to differentiate your site.

[Tre]

I applaud Tre for taking the HD initiave. I dont think it's a trend, but what do I know?? I totally missed the boat on payperview and trying to catch up, so I dont profess to be any kind of guru. But this dog had a few tricks and I'm keeping my mouth shut because I know you guys watch me like a hawk. *cough webcam cough*
lol @ McMuscle!

Thanks for your kind words, James. As you can see, only 2 multi-model sites are doing anything with HD, so you're right, there's really no trend yet. So far, it's something that a majority of fans 'like', but are not yet demanding. Naturally, I hope that will continue to change.

You are the leader when it comes to innovation with respect to delivering content to the female muscle fanbase, and that's why I look up to you. The rest of the site owners are always in "catch-up mode" when it comes to you, my friend. ;) Even though you may be imitated, you know that what you bring to the table can never be duplicated. There's no denying that you give many of us a lot to strive for.

Hiram - You and David were valuable members of the FemFlex team and I was glad to call you guys my friends and associates. I also credit you for encouraging FF to be the first site to delve into the HD arena and also for helping to grow the demand for HD video with the opening of your new site. As always, I wish you and David continued success with HDphysiques and look forward to following your progress in the months and years to come.

[James]

Oh c'mon James.... not even a hint? You just KNOW you can trust all of us not to steal your ideas!! :woot:

lol. next time in Bellevue, I'll get liquored up on our trip back from the Safeway market and tell you everything. :drinkA: :D

[James]

lol @ McMuscle!

Thanks for your kind words, James. As you can see, only 2 multi-model sites are doing anything with HD, so you're right, there's really no trend yet. So far, it's something that a majority of fans 'like', but are not yet demanding. Naturally, I hope that will continue to change.

You are the leader when it comes to innovation with respect to delivering content to the female muscle fanbase, and that's why I look up to you. The rest of the site owners are always in "catch-up mode" when it comes to you, my friend. ;) Even though you may be imitated, you know that what you bring to the table can never be duplicated. There's no denying that you give many of us a lot to strive for.

Hiram - You and David were valuable members of the FemFlex team and I was glad to call you guys my friends and associates. I also credit you for encouraging FF to be the first site to delve into the HD arena and also for helping to grow the demand for HD video with the opening of your new site. As always, I wish you and David continued success with HDphysiques and look forward to following your progress in the months and years to come.

Thanks tre. It's all good. :) maybe see you at internext next week. Gene and i will be there. :cheers: