HardFitness Management Contracts

[James]

Below is a copy of the contract that Juan Carlos Lopez of Hardfitness asks models to sign. This is an agreement that prohibits girls from shooting with anyone else for 2 years. Please feel free to chime in with your thoughts/opinions of this practice (address and phone number has been deleted):
------------------------------------------------------------------------

HARDFITNESS MANAGEMENT AGREEMENT
This contract (the "Agreement") made and entered into this 6th day of July, 2007 (the "Execution Date"),
BETWEEN:
Juan Carlos Lopez
(the "Manager")
OF THE FIRST PART
- and -

(the "Model/Competitor")
OF THE SECOND PART
BACKGROUND:
A. The Model/competitor is known as __________; and
B. The Manager wishes to engage the Model/competitor and is willing to undertake to do so, subject to the terms and conditions as follows:
IN CONSIDERATION OF and as a condition of the Manager hiring the Model/competitor and other valuable consideration, the receipt and sufficiency of which consideration is acknowledged here, the parties to this Agreement agree as follows:
Business Address of the Model/competitor
1. Any payments by check or money order should be made out __________. The Model/competitor's business address is as follows:
Address:
Telephone:
Fax: ___________________
E-mail:

Business Address of the Manager
2. The Manager's business address is as follows:
Address: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Telephone: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Fax: ___________________
E-mail: jc@hardfitness.com

Venue
3. Can be at a show, hotel or house or any other area where photoshoots or booth work can be done.

Confidentiality
4. This agreement is confidential between the Manager and Model/competitor. Translators or people appointed by the Manager are able to involve themselves in these terms. If Model/competitor needs to discuss the contract with boyfriend/husband/fiancé or family they may do so. But please keep the details and terms between those people you talk to, friends and fellow competitors are not included.

5. Term of Contract
This agreement will last 2 years, Model/competitor is required to compete in at least one show every year or do a photoshoot with Manager at least twice per year.

6. Modeling
The entertainment to be provided by the Model/Competitor is generally described as modeling all styles she is comfortable shooting.

Date and Time of Modeling
7. It will involve photoshoots at either an event where the athlete competes or is attending or working a booth. Shoots will also be scheduled out of the competitive season in order to return the investment from the Manager. Model/Competitor is responsible in contacting Manager regarding future shows.
8. Exclusivity
By signing this form the Model/competitor is exclusive with photos and videos. This will limit doing photoshoots with members sites of any kind that are not part of the Manager’s network. Model/competitor can do photos for promotional work, print magazines or ads or free profiles in which she must include Manager. She must ask Manager/manager in order to get approval for any photoshoot or working with a company in any regard. Regarding photos and videos she will appear only on these member and webcam sites: www.muscletease.com and www.muscleteasecam.com
9. Cancellation
The Manager reserves the right to cancel this agreement if Model/competitor violates any of the clauses on this agreement.
10. Shooting Shape
As most of the return investment for the Manager are photos and videos the Model/competitor must be in good shape which is 5 lbs above contest shape without counting strict contest weight on stage.
11. Outfits for Booth Work and Photoshoot
The model will bring her own outfits and will wear some of the Manager outfits for photoshoots, might be thongs, lingerie, swimsuits, etc... As far as booth outfits she will wear only clothing with the Manager’s logo and name unless otherwise specified.

Force Majeure
12. Neither the Manager nor the Model/competitor will be held liable for any failure to perform its obligations under this Agreement where such breach is due to any of the following: acts or regulations of public authorities, labor difficulties or strike, inclement weather, epidemic, interruption or delay of transportation service, or any other legitimate cause beyond the reasonable control of the Model/competitor and the Manager.

Sickness and Accidents
13. The Model/competitor agrees to meet its obligations under this Agreement subject to legitimate incapacity by sickness or accident. Failure to meet its obligations under this section will result in the Model/competitor returning any and all outstanding deposits to the Manager.

Advertising
14. The Manager will be responsible for advertising the Model/competitor on hardfitness.com, muscletease.com, muscleteasecam.com and any other websites he decides are good for her image. Manager will advertise the Model/competitor appearances on his booth and any other pertinent events.
15. Name
The model/Model/competitor agrees that the Manager may use the Model/competitor's name, photographs, and other likenesses to promote the Performance. The Model/competitor will provide the Manager with copies of the Model/competitor's promotional materials suitable for this purpose. The Manager's right to use the Model/competitor's name is limited to the period beginning with the Execution Date and ending upon completion and cancellation of this Agreement.
16. Governing Law
The Manager and the Model/competitor submit to the jurisdiction of the courts of the State of California for the enforcement of this Agreement or any arbitration award or decision arising from this Agreement. This Agreement will be enforced or construed according to the laws of the State of California.
17. Covenant of Good Faith and Fair Dealing
The Manager and the Model/competitor agree to perform their obligations under this Agreement, in all respects, in good faith.

Additional Terms
18. Shooting Time and Webcam: As stipulated above shooting time will depend if Manager is available to shoot Model/competitor. If not then Manager can fly out Model/competitor at a different time of the year and fulfill the hours needed to return the money paid to the model. Additionally the Model/competitor is to perform on the webcam a few hours per month or appear at exclusive special shows at events she competes in.
19. House Rules and Behavior: If staying at a house or hotel room paid by the Manager, Model/competitor will be subjected to certain rules. First of all no disruptive behavior towards Manager, no excessive partying that will disrupt photoshoots next day or the same day, only the model will be at the house or hotel, if you have a loved one or friend that is not involved unless explicit authorization from the Manager they are not allowed in the same hotel/house. Trainers, translators or people that the Manager appoints are fine as their involvement is needed in the success of the Model/competitor event.
Miscellaneous Terms
20. This Agreement may be executed in counterparts. Facsimile signatures are binding and are considered to be original signatures.
21. The Model/competitor's representative warrants that by signing this Agreement it has the authority to bind the Model/competitor to the terms and conditions of this Agreement.
22. If any term, covenant, condition or provision of this Agreement is held by a court of competent jurisdiction to be invalid, void or unenforceable, it is the parties' intent that such provision be reduced in scope by the court only to the extent deemed necessary by that court to render the provision reasonable and enforceable and the remainder of the provisions of this Agreement will in no way be affected, impaired or invalidated as a result.
23. This Agreement contains the entire agreement between the parties and cannot be changed except by written instrument subsequently executed by the parties to this Agreement. All negotiations and understandings have been included in this Agreement. Statements or representations which may have been made to the Manager by the Model/competitor or to the Model/competitor by the Manager, in the negotiation stages of this Agreement may in some way be inconsistent with this final written contract. All such statements are declared to be of no value in this Agreement. Only the written terms of this Agreement will bind the parties.
24. This Agreement and the terms and conditions contained in this Agreement apply to and are binding upon the Model/competitor's successors, assigns, executors, administrators, beneficiaries, and representatives, and the Manager's successors and assigns.
25. The Model/competitor specifically warrants and represents that all copyrighted material to be performed has been licensed or authorized by the copyright owners or their representatives. The Model/competitor indemnifies the Manager for any copyright infringement and any expenses that may result from such copyright infringement during or as the result of the Performance.
26. It is the intent of the parties to this Agreement that the Model/competitor is an independent contractor and will control the manner and means of the Performance. The Manager will control the scheduling of the Performance. The Model/competitor is not an employee of the Manager. The exclusive nature of this Agreement is limited to the duration of the contract. Model/competitor can renew after two years this contract.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF the Model/competitor and the Manager have duly affixed their signatures under hand on this 6th day of July, 2007.

Juan Carlos Lopez

per: _____________________

______________________

[Lift Studios]

Interesting.

The entertainment to be provided by the Model/Competitor is generally described as modeling all styles she is comfortable shooting.

I would strongly urge all women to never sign a contract like this.

[MoreMuscles]

That contract is BS.

[gymdiva1222]

ok I heard not favorful things about him but DAMN!

[Lift Studios]

How do you say Bull**** is Spanish?

:wtf:

[CalJoe]

How do you say Bull**** is Spanish?

:wtf:
There is no Spanish word for bullsh1t, only one for sh1t, and that word is MIERDA!!!! I've heard some stories recently on this JC guy that only confirm the fact that I thought he was a sneaky little scumbag from the first time I met him.

[chris10000]

last year at the euroshow ( we didnt know all the people )
jana had a shooting with him.
she stopped in the middle of the shooting because she didnt feel well !

but all this contract thing tells a lot :
in all the magazines it is told that the future is in figure !
BUT no fbb would sign a contract like this ( fbb have more loyal fans who are willing to pay for websites , webcam , sessions)
but how much figuregirls are making any money ????
this figuregirls are an easy catch for him

[chris10000]

another funny point : girls have to use the cloth the manager brings ...

be prepared to get some infection....
he told jana last year that he wanted to shoot her in one of his dresses...
she looked inside and nearly puked....better not!!!

[fivegrand]

That's neither a management contract nor does it describe what a manager actually does.

That's a harem-building document for a pimp trap - and is pretty full of holes, anyway (assuming that's the complete document).

[Doug Smith]

However clearly somebody with legal experience helped him put it together - not many schmotogs are familiar with 'force majeure' for example.

Agree that it is unlikely to be upheld in a court of law. However no guarantee any model who signs it will realize that.

[TomNine]

I hope JC isn't just sliding this in front of tired, carb-depleted models after a shoot on a hectic contest weekend without explaining that it is not the usual models release. I use a very brief release form free of legalese, and the models rarely read it through.

There are a lot of insecure women out there looking for somebody to take care of them. I suspect JC is taking advantage of that and some of the women must be happy with the arrangement. I try not to deal with "managers" but I've found some helpful and professional, some not so much. Either way, I haven't seen any reason why most models in the fitness industry would need one.

There is nothing hidden or vague in the contract. Any woman who takes a minute to read it, understands it, and signs it deserves what she gets.

[James]

http://www.chadnicholls.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49558


(PS: I think i am in Georges 'Hall of Shame' too. :( Hey Issac, where do you display your trophy? lol)

[Lift Studios]

http://www.chadnicholls.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49559


(PS: I think i am in Georges 'Hall of Shame' too. :( Hey Issac, where do you display your trophy? lol)

I haven't been on George's board but I'm sure I'm in his displeasure list. The thread on mayhem is one of the few times I actually agree with George. I have yet to receive my trophy but will display it proudly once I do. lol

:cheers:

[Tre]

Pwnt.

What a jackass his mother raised.

[Kriv]

I was wondering when this situation would hit the fan, and I guess James, your the one who threw the first big roundhouse. It was a nice shot and you would think quite damaging. Regardless though, I'm thinking at the next big show, whether it's the North American's, or the Olympia, Juan will continue to shoot his 20 or so Models during that particular weekend and go about his business like nothing ever happened. Even though he may have a bad rep in certain quarters, he continues to shoot with most of the Models he chooses. I've seen some girls who already heard this or that about Juan, and said some things themselves about him, turn around 2 minutes later and do a shoot with him. I'm thinking that whatever he's selling to his potential Models, is working. It's a number game and apparently, he's a "Closer". That's just the way JC rolls.

Lou.....KrivStudios:

[James]

Actually, I really havent said anything bad. This contract has been circulating around a bit and I felt that instead of talking about it amongst ourselves, I would just throw it out there in the open. I think a girl would be foolish to sign it, but it seems clearly written enough..

But I've been saying for years: 'It is impossible to get a bad reputation in this business' Even if you tried to. Because there are always new girls coming along.

I know nothing will change and that wasn't my intent. I just wanted to put it out there for us to chat about. Anyone else's agenda is their business..

[Tre]

However clearly somebody with legal experience helped him put it together - not many schmotogs are familiar with 'force majeure' for example.
Why didn't he use a real attorney as opposed to someone with 'legal experience' (which could simply mean someone who's watched a lot of Law & Order)?

The guy takes excellent contest photos and works hard to get them posted quickly, but other than that, he's a joke. Period. He should focus on putting more effort into his off-stage pictures in order to raise them up to the quality of his contest pics.

And for the love of god, he should never, ever, ever shoot another video clip as long as he lives.

[K-Max]

I'm almost tempted to suggest that there ought to be a female muscle photographer industry association established. lol.

[Pandmoanium]

couple of points to cover here,

first I wasn't too impressed with the use of "force majeure" since I just heard Bart Simpson use it! lol

second, up until this point, JC has taken some photos of Emery. And his shoots have allowed me to get some nice ones as well. (See below)

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/5826/europajclpe3.jpg

Is the contract sleazy, you bet! Would I let Emery shoot alone with him, not a chance! Sorry JC, I trust you about as far as I could shot put you.

[Harry The Hat]

There is nothing hidden or vague in the contract.
Well there's certainly one thing I'd get cleared up - even if I understood clear as a bell it was a management contract and not a photo shoot release form - is the manager's fee/percentage.

There's no numbers mentioned, so either he's doing it for free or the actual amount is not disclosed in the contract.

[jasons805]

Anyone else willing to post their contracts? I have seen some just as bad or worse.

[Doug Smith]

Why didn't he use a real attorney as opposed to someone with 'legal experience' (which could simply mean someone who's watched a lot of Law & Order)?

The guy takes excellent contest photos and works hard to get them posted quickly, but other than that, he's a joke. Period. He should focus on putting more effort into his off-stage pictures in order to raise them up to the quality of his contest pics.

And for the love of god, he should never, ever, ever shoot another video clip as long as he lives.

Hi Tre

My use of 'legal experience' did not preclude an actual lawyer.

Quite a few of the clauses in the contract are standard legal writing, with a few words (mainly 'manager') inserted. I pointed out the Force Majeure clause because I have read almost identical clauses in actual lawyer written contracts.

However regarding his video I am in complete agreement - if anyone wants to learn what it is like to experience vertigo download his recent ones posted on AMG-lite.

[Kriv]

Why didn't he use a real attorney as opposed to someone with 'legal experience' (which could simply mean someone who's watched a lot of Law & Order)?

The guy takes excellent contest photos and works hard to get them posted quickly, but other than that, he's a joke. Period. He should focus on putting more effort into his off-stage pictures in order to raise them up to the quality of his contest pics.

And for the love of god, he should never, ever, ever shoot another video clip as long as he lives.


My Man Tre'
I'm glad you could finally get that off your chest. It was a long time coming for you, I'm sure. I've got to admit, your video clip take was priceless. I hope your feeling better now. That reminds me of this cogent observation: "Revenge is better served chilled."
Lou....KrivStudios:

[thetruth]

Below is a copy of the contract that Juan Carlos Lopez of Hardfitness asks models to sign. This is an agreement that prohibits girls from shooting with anyone else for 2 years. Please feel free to chime in with your thoughts/opinions of this practice (address and phone number has been deleted):
__

Yes James...it's me...and I know you banned me...but I just wanted to say this.

I commend you or whoever brought this deceptive and potentially career killing "document" out into the open for all to see. I've said it a million times....there are a lot of things wrong in this business already...photography should not be one of them. What you've done is a good thing not only for the new/naive women competitors..but for the "veterans" who have not yet "experienced" el slicko.....

It is my opinion that ANY woman who signs that document is either:

carb depleted
the most naive person in the history of the world
an idiot
should seek professional help


Additionally, in order for there to be a binding agreement, there needs to be an exchange....either monies or services. If you look at the document...there's a lot of stuff that the "model" must agree to...but absoulutely NOTHING about what the Manager must/will do for the "models" exclusivity. No Terms whatsoever relative to payment to the model....and if you read it further...

"Statements or representations which may have been made to the Manager by the Model/competitor or to the Model/competitor by the Manager, in the negotiation stages of this Agreement may in some way be inconsistent with this final written contract. All such statements are declared to be of no value in this Agreement. Only the written terms of this Agreement will bind the parties."
What this basically says..."hey...anything he told the model before she signed the agreement is irrelevant....and basically BS....once she signs...the document and ONLY THE ITEMS CONTAINED IN THE DOCUMENT are the only thing that will matter...."

That being said, it's pretty much standard that what is actually contained/stipulated in the contract constitutes the whole deal (is EXACTLY what the deal is about)...and nothing more...my point is that IF...there was any mention of payment before she signed...it should be put in writing and contained in the agreement...

What was convieniently absent from the agreement is any mention of method of payment to the model (if any...other than pics and vids)...and what the "manager" will do other than put her in his pay/webcamsites......and take a piece of anything she does for 2 yrs....pretty slick huh?....:mad: :stupid: :banghead: :wtf:

So again....While you may just delete this and ban me again....I just wanted to say thanks...and that you James, by your actions, will be officially removed from my "Hall of Shame"

Best wishes,
George Legeros

[Femphysiquefan]

Unfortunate to read and hear about JCL in this way. He does such good work, it's upsetting to find out that he seems to conduct business in this way. However, I would still be interested to hear HIS take on HIS contract (should he happen to be lurking around in here). I now know about those who don't agree with him or how he conducts business and their POV: in the interest of fairness, however, I would like to hear HIS POV on this same issue. I guess I just get upset when I hear only one side of a debate, and either no attempt or no thought is given to let the other side have its fair say.

[Tre]

However, I would still be interested to hear HIS take on HIS contract (should he happen to be lurking around in here)... in the interest of fairness, however, I would like to hear HIS POV on this same issue.
'His side' is to threaten to sue the woman who exposed his scam.

He takes good contest pics and gets them posted quickly.

He brings nothing else to the table and you can tell him and his 'friends' that TRE SCOTT said so.

[ripitupbaby]

WOW. :1eek:

I think I'll pretty much stay out of this one, but I will just say that I shot with JC in Chicago at Junior Nats. I signed a typical model release form like most of the photographers use...I wouldn't sign an exclusive contract anyway.
I got paid, I shot alone with JC, and I was perfectly comfortable with it. I had a good time and was very happy with the pics that resulted from the shoot.

:)

[James]

'His side' is to threaten to sue the woman who exposed his scam.

Yes, this is true. And when she said that she had no money to defend herself from a lawsuit, his 'suggestion' was to: "perform on his webcam to help payback' the money from the business he would lose"

[James]

So again....While you may just delete this and ban me again....I just wanted to say thanks...and that you James, by your actions, will be officially removed from my "Hall of Shame"

Best wishes,
George Legeros

the truth is always welcome on our forums

[thetruth]

Yes, this is true. And when she said that she had no money to defend herself from a lawsuit, his 'suggestion' was to: "perform on his webcam to help payback' the money from the business he would lose"
I thought I could restrain myself and keep to the truth/facts and not resort to name calling....well...sorry....he's just a lowdown sorry !@#$%^&^%$#@!@#$...

UPDATE:
It has been reported that all traces of him have been conspicuously removed from one of the major websites that features fbb/fig/fitness......perhaps there is a God...

[Harry The Hat]

JC has just responded to the current debate for the first time, on a thread on the subject on Mayhem:

I was out of town and replying now. The contract you talk about George is really the skeleton of a sponsorship contract just like Harry the Hat said there is no fee for a manager. I don't have a problem with any competitor I sponsor to shoot with another photographer that can give her exposure or free profiles, magazine coverage. That only helps me and her name to get out there. The only shoots they won't do is for other muscle member sites specially video, just as simple as that.

I pay for hotel, flight, registration fee, tanning, and now have a great make up artist. I have even paid for brand new suits for one girl who had hers stolen at a show. If anyone thinks this is bad then fine, but I am not asking for anyones opinion but the people I sponsor are very happy about this.

JC

This is my response and the questions I put to him (I've just noticed ripitupbaby has already answered one of the questions I put, but it seems fair to give him the opportunity to answer all of them):

Thank you for responding JC. As you know, I believe it's always best to respond to criticism with open and honest answers and the actual facts of the matter.

Just to clarify, I didn't say there was no manager's fee, I actually said it reads as though there might be:

...by saying "Model/competitor can do photos for promotional work, print magazines or ads or free profiles in which she must include Manager", that would suggest that the Manager (JC) gets a percentage of all future modelling/photographic work.
Because the contract is an unusual one, it raises a few more questions JC that I was hoping you could answer.

1. If the phrase "...in which she must include Manager" doesn't mean "...of which the Manager must receive percentage or fee", what does it mean? That the model must always be acknowledged as being managed by JC Lopez?

2. The document - whatever its origins - is a complete one. If sponsorship isn't mentioned in this document, that would suggest that there is a separate one to deal with that issue. Is that supposition correct? Why not include all of the elements of the management and sponsorship in one document?

3. The wider question goes unanswered. This is a management agreement, not a photoshoot release form. Why is there the need for such an all-encompassing, prohibitive contract when it could just be handled by a clause with the stipulation - as just outlined by JC - that models cannot model for other websites?



4. The fact is that this contract seems to be the default one. A simple enough question: have all models that shot with JC and for his website therefore appointed JC as their manager?

5. The follow up question from that would be: does JC have a simple photoshoot release form - as used by almost all other photographers - for models who do not wish to be tied to an exclusivity deal?

6. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, [I]do all models who sign the management agreement receive sponsorship monies? The general agreement seems to be that a contract of this sort cannot be valid unless there is a sizeable level of remuneration.

There are also a raft of other questions floating around. Do the models receive the contract well in advance of the shoot? Is it presented to them only at the time of shoot, when the model may be in a carb depleted state? How many of the models are inexperienced and may not realize that this is a management contract and not a photoshoot release form? Is this difference clearly explained to them? An inexperienced model may not realize that an exclusivity agreement is the exception rather than the norm.

Speaking for myself, it seems as though:

(a) An exclusivity clause rather a management contract would raise a lot less eyebrows and suspicion. You can still question whether that is to the ultimate benefit of the athlete to sign such an agreement, but that ultimately is a matter of personal judgement for the athlete.

(b) It seems fair that any athlete who signs the management contract should receive on-going sponsorship or remuneration. As long as her images are assisting in generating income for JC's websites (and most importantly, the athlete is prohibited from shooting with other websites), the model should receive ongoing monies for the duration of the management contract.

Just my (very long and wordy) two cents worth.

************************************

This is the thread on Mayhem JC posted on:

http://www.musclemayhem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49558

For those that don't get over there, I'll post any response from JC here and on Femuscle.

[James]

It has been reported that all traces of him have been conspicuously removed from one of the major websites that features fbb/fig/fitness......perhaps there is a God...

I hope Pastor Candy didnt read that....:mr-t:

[Harry The Hat]

Tre, if you want to get JC to respond to your point about suing the competitor who originally aired the contract details, then post on the Mayhem thread.

You'd be right in assuming that he probably reads the comments on here, GB etc, but he's chosen Mayhem to respond to criticism, probably because it's more of an industry board. So if you want an answer to why he thinks it's appropriate to sue one of his models or suggest that she work off alleged debts performing on webcam, that's the place you're most likely to get an answer.

[Tre]

Tre, if you want to get JC to respond to your point about suing the competitor who originally aired the contract details, then post on the Mayhem thread.

You'd be right in assuming that he probably reads the comments on here, GB etc, but he's chosen Mayhem to respond to criticism, probably because it's more of an industry board. So if you want an answer to why he thinks it's appropriate to sue one of his models or suggest that she work off alleged debts performing on webcam, that's the place you're most likely to get an answer.
I took a peek at Mayhem today, but won't have time to post there until next week at the earliest.

It does appear, however (based on what I read at both Mayhem and GetBig), that he's pulled the wool over a sufficient number of eyes to make it seem as though he's being victimized by the big, bad internet bullies who are just trying to keep a hard-workin' man down.

[bthomas77]

Yes, this is true. And when she said that she had no money to defend herself from a lawsuit, his 'suggestion' was to: "perform on his webcam to help payback' the money from the business he would lose"


to perform on his webcam that has zero traffic....it would take a million years to make any money there.......

[James]

probably because it's more of an industry board.

ouch :fitz:

[Femphysiquefan]

I thought I could restrain myself and keep to the truth/facts and not resort to name calling....well...sorry....he's just a lowdown sorry !@#$%^&^%$#@!@#$...

UPDATE:
It has been reported that all traces of him have been conspicuously removed from one of the major websites that features fbb/fig/fitness......perhaps there is a God...

Okay, after what I've read here and researched on my own.......I'm convinced, JC's a great photographer, but also a VERY sleazy businessman!! Thanks for bringing this to my attention, gentlemen!!! Hope to see you at a show sometime!! :camera: :cheers:

[twicedead]

This contract wouldn't hold up in court. That's the only thing that matters. If he took a model to court he'd be paying their court costs.

[Gymrat3082]

I have heard that a few times JC checks have bounced along with making many of the girls cry during the shoot. Crazy stuff right there!

[James]

Yes, check bouncing is true. I heard this directly from a competitor.

[mark000]

I would think that a manager working in the interests of the client would WANT to get her on as many reputable websites as possible.

[fivegrand]

I would think that a manager working in the interests of the client would WANT to get her on as many reputable websites as possible.

The key there is what the goal is. All things in moderation - after all, people die of "exposure" every day.

[mark000]

The key there is what the goal is. All things in moderation - after all, people die of "exposure" every day.

Hello, I said reputable sites. JCL's language would apparently keep women off FTVideo, HerBiceps and FemFlex.

[Tre]

Thanks for the kind words, Mark.

Yes, I, too, was always under the impression that it was a manager's job to secure work for his clients. When I look at other managers in the entertainment industry, this is what they do.

[HDPhysiques]

Hello, I said reputable sites. JCL's language would apparently keep women off FTVideo, HerBiceps and FemFlex.

FTVideo is indeed a reputable site...... now, those other ones... (:fitz: @ Tre') lol

[BigD]

I hope JC isn't just sliding this in front of tired, carb-depleted models after a shoot on a hectic contest weekend without explaining that it is not the usual models release. I use a very brief release form free of legalese, and the models rarely read it through.

There are a lot of insecure women out there looking for somebody to take care of them. I suspect JC is taking advantage of that and some of the women must be happy with the arrangement. I try not to deal with "managers" but I've found some helpful and professional, some not so much. Either way, I haven't seen any reason why most models in the fitness industry would need one.

There is nothing hidden or vague in the contract. Any woman who takes a minute to read it, understands it, and signs it deserves what she gets.


The contract isn't a Model Release. A MR serves a different purpose.

[MDF]

That juan Carlos lopez contract has no contact with reality.

No fitness or FBB woman should ever sign such a contract.

It does not even say how much he should pay the model.... and he should pay alot if the contract shuold be in touch with reality.

[Alexander]

Okay, after what I've read here and researched on my own.......I'm convinced, JC's a great photographer, but also a VERY sleazy businessman!! Thanks for bringing this to my attention, gentlemen!!! Hope to see you at a show sometime!! :camera: :cheers:

JC's a great photographer - agree:camera:

Exclusive contract - it is always great, when the parties get a lot of money. JC do not like the leadership IFBB and NPC?

[Zennie]

Having an FBB sign an exclusive contract wrecks that FBB's Internet value if it includes websites. The major mistake commonly made among MANY here is that one website's enough. WRONG. The name of the game is syndication. It's no wonder the industry does not see it's $5 billion potential.

[James]

It's no wonder the industry does not see it's $5 billion potential.

The video game industry made 9.7 billion in 2007. Domestic box office for the motion picture industry is about 9.3 billion last year...

I guess I'm included in the group that doesn't see the 5 billion potential from fbb websites. What a fool I am! :mad:

[Zennie]

The video game industry made 9.7 billion in 2007. Domestic box office for the motion picture industry is about 9.3 billion last year...

I guess I'm included in the group that doesn't see the 5 billion potential from fbb websites. What a fool I am! :mad:

Hey. It's there, but many practices would have to change for that goal to be achieved. Also, I was referring to ALL aspects of the industry, not just online. But I will add that NO FBB has a constant online mainstream show format. That's just for starters and I wrote this four years ago. No, I also did not call anyone a fool, James. I don't do that.

[Zennie]

Hey. It's there, but many practices would have to change for that goal to be achieved. Also, I was referring to ALL aspects of the industry, not just online. But I will add that NO FBB has a constant online mainstream show format. That's just for starters and I wrote this four years ago. No, I also did not call anyone a fool, James. I don't do that.

James I also remind you that there is not a tally of total revenue for the industry, including stuff we don't talk about. I'll bet all would be surprised. You also have to add retail services to the people in the industry, like supplements, etc.

[Tre]

The supplement industy is not the industry of female bodybuilding.

Zennie - I'm with James on the $5 billion issue, but I know it's in your interests to get women to believe that you're going to make them all this money with one of your online 'business simulations'.

[Zennie]

The supplement industy is not the industry of female bodybuilding.

Zennie - I'm with James on the $5 billion issue, but I know it's in your interests to get women to believe that you're going to make them all this money with one of your online 'business simulations'.

?? Don't know where you got that idea from.

As I've stated before, you and I are different. I'm in the Internet business, not the "buffed girl business.'

I'm a standing member of WISE -- Women In Sport and Events -- and produced and moderated a panel called "Managing your Digital Identity" which drew over 100 attendees, 98 percent women.

I don't like or believe in many of the current FBB economic practices and feel the industry suffers from it, including an intense myopia regarding what is possible -- for example the idea of exclusive contracts. Or the whole business of member sections or just having one website.

I could go on. But THIS...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha-Bvh0n4M4

TECH TECH TECH

Is my world, closely followed by Politics (off to Denver again) and the NFL.

As to the matter of sims, if you're referring to "Buffi The Gym Girl" the model is Paris Hilton, and has been done (about 70 percent finished) -- it's not an FBB but a friend of mine who KNOWS Paris Hilton and fashioned the character.

The idea for that sim game came directly from vendors who wanted a fitness sim, so I made one with a twist. I do want to help people I know with the sim, but only to a certain point to be frank.

What bothers me is that many of the women have made themselves mental slaves to male practices and take on a process that in the end, only serves to harm both them and the sport. Only Melissa Detwiller has come close to the ideal I envision. She still sets the standard.

But to this writing there's STILL no FBB-version of LonelyGirl or Rocketboom (http://www.rocketboom.com) or any of the video shows that have come to dominate the share of ad dollars going online. The FBB industry has picked up ZERO --- ZERO share -- from this growing source.

The 5 billion estimate includes a lot. Moreover, a common industrial analysis -- my background is in urban economics -- would include many transactions you would bristle at but are part of the deal. For example, I have one domain name I created -- not FBB related -- for $8 and was just offered $6,000 for it. Just for the name.

An FBB could do the same. So you can laugh and make fun of me, I enjoy it -- to the bank. Passive income should be the objective for all. But I do care -- I care about women advancing economically and take a hard line on that -- so my voice will remain.

But the point is that $5 billion is a potential mark. The industry is so very screwed up now it wll never get there. Sadly. And to be totally frank, I've given up on trying to push it.

[James]

An FBB could do the same. So you can laugh and make fun of me, I enjoy it -- to the bank. Passive income should be the objective for all. But I do care -- I care about women advancing economically and take a hard line on that -- so my voice will remain.

But the point is that $5 billion is a potential mark. The industry is so very screwed up now it wll never get there. Sadly. And to be totally frank, I've given up on trying to push it.

Zennie, I'm not discouraging you or making fun of you at all. I dont think it's a 5 billion dollar industry (supplements and everything) but what do I know? I think a lot of the industry people reading this started out with ambitious goals for things, but a certain level of reality sets in and it comes down to just paying the bills.

So if you've given up, then that makes you the quitter. Don't blame the 'industry'. No one here (especially me) is stopping you from getting rich or changing the business model of how stuff is done.

[Zennie]

Zennie, I'm not discouraging you or making fun of you at all. I dont think it's a 5 billion dollar industry (supplements and everything) but what do I know? I think a lot of the industry people reading this started out with ambitious goals for things, but a certain level of reality sets in and it comes down to just paying the bills.

So if you've given up, then that makes you the quitter. Don't blame the 'industry'. No one here (especially me) is stopping you from getting rich or changing the business model of how stuff is done.

First, I have to appologize because I got a little salty when Tre reffered to me, and all of my frustrations came out. Taking a 30 foot step back, I think you, James, have been a pioneer in trying to empower FBBs. And yes, you're very right about it coming down to paying bills.

I also do stand ready to help; I'm just major-league sensitive I think because I try and at times it's misunderstood.

So, I'll keep trying.

Also, on a another note...I just found, THE INTERNET. I have to give a plug for this AT&T / Sierra Wireless 3G USBConnect 881 Card. Damn thing really works! It's basically a cell phone type internet connector, so you don't have to use a WiFi signal; I'm thnking of trying it on the beach! The only deal is I had to go to Sierra Wireless Website and get the most up to date version of the download setup system. The one in the card itself is buggy.

So, if you're having problems and you have a MacBook, go here:

http://www.sierrawireless.com/support/support_and_downloads.aspx?id=4,13,1,2

[James]

It's all good Zennie. Sounds like a good topic to chat about on my show. Right now I'm broadcasting the USA Championships post game show. You can watch it here: http://www.fitvixenz.com

And thanks for the heads up on the geek gear!

[Zennie]

It's all good Zennie. Sounds like a good topic to chat about on my show. Right now I'm broadcasting the USA Championships post game show. You can watch it here: http://www.fitvixenz.com

And thanks for the heads up on the geek gear!

Neat show! Congrats!!

[Tre]

Zennie, I'm not discouraging you or making fun of you at all. I dont think it's a 5 billion dollar industry (supplements and everything) but what do I know?
You know it's not a 5 billion dollar industry because you're *in* the industry and have run a successful business for several years now (nice new show, by the way - it's about time someone did something like that!).

You're talking reality, Zennie is talking dreams.

I'm not discouraging Zennie either, but I am laughing at his hypotheses.

But hey, the people laughed at Noah as he built his ark, too. If I'm wrong and Zennie ends up becoming a billionaire off his blog and sims, then I hope he'll keep a position in his company open for me.

---

Regarding JC's model releases and contracts, he makes them available to almost every model in advance of their shoots with him. The public scrutiny he's faced in the past few years has caused him to really improve his business practices and I, for one, commend him for that.

[Zennie]

You know it's not a 5 billion dollar industry because you're *in* the industry and have run a successful business for several years now (nice new show, by the way - it's about time someone did something like that!).

You're talking reality, Zennie is talking dreams.

I'm not discouraging Zennie either, but I am laughing at his hypotheses.

But hey, the people laughed at Noah as he built his ark, too. If I'm wrong and Zennie ends up becoming a billionaire off his blog and sims, then I hope he'll keep a position in his company open for me.

---

Regarding JC's model releases and contracts, he makes them available to almost every model in advance of their shoots with him. The public scrutiny he's faced in the past few years has caused him to really improve his business practices and I, for one, commend him for that.

Hmmm....Why is this starting to feel like Evan All Mighty? Oh., I'll leave a light on for ya Tre.

[Tre]

Hmmm....Why is this starting to feel like Evan All Mighty? Oh., I'll leave a light on for ya Tre.
Crap, I hate it when you guys refer to movies or shows I haven't seen.

:mad:

[Chloe]

Not a problem at all, basically the original founders have stepped down i.e. John Dawson, who will still be involved and left things to the likes of Charlie Brennan who has been heavily involved in the management structure for a long time anyway.



Well done John and the team for all your work to date