Ms. "O" Results/here!!

[James]

hey all,

here are some pix. Some quick notes/obsevations:

1.) The expo is very nice and roomy. Tons of great women in the croud and have been seeing lots of friends and made some new ones also.

2.) How the Ms Olympia prejudjing was handled was the worst I have ever seen. They held everyone back and let the VIP's enter first. Basically this allowed the first 20 rows to dissapear. I had a general admission wristband and we had to wait until 5 minutes before the show started before they let us in. So I could only get a seat way in the back and I could only move up until later in the prejudging (the following pix are from when I could move up) So basically, if you wanted a good seat, you had to be a VIP AND get there early.

3.) All the competitors were big and shredded. There was no sign of a 20 percent rule. I felt the callouts were the 'Usual Suspects" so to speak and they were just NOT going to look at anyone else.

So here are the first callouts: Yaxeni, Dayana, Iris.

[James]

Here is the second callouts

[Scott]

Go Yaxeni! Kudos to the fbb's for not giving in to the 20% rule! Thx for the update James

[gymdiva1222]

I'm not seeing anything for the second callout pics...

[gymdiva1222]

just kidding...there they are!

[James]

Brenda Raganot is in the top five and probably 4th place. She is looking good.

[gymdiva1222]

how tall is she? she's a brickhouse! I love it! :D

[James]

second Callouts to include Betty Vianna and Rose Jennings on end

[Scott]

maybe 52'-5'3

[James]

I thought Toni Norman was the look they were asking for. But here she is in 3rd callouts. But Toni has lost some size from when I saw her at the Europa..

[James]

Annie R. and Marja L. getting slammed in last callouts. Marja looks the best I've ever seen her.

[James]

Tonia looks great and definatly belongs up there with the pros.

[Scott]

wow i agree with ya James on Marja, she rocks! So does TW!

[Tre]

Go Yaxeni! Kudos to the fbb's for not giving in to the 20% rule! Thx for the update James

Iris did...

[Tre]

I totally disagree on Marja - she looked way off her game. She's got some big ol' quads, though.

It's hard to imagine why she and Annie were in the last group of the "muscularity" round, though...

[Tre]

Great shots, Gene! I mean, James! :D

[MDF]

WOW take a look at Iris Kyles calves - excellence and over all symmetry - I think no one can match that!!!! :cool: :cool: :cool:

[hans]

Thanks James - as usual there are no pics anywhere on the web except on this board.

Hans

[daveberry]

Hi Everyone
Does anyone have the fitness and figure results :D

Many thanks Dave ;)

[diamondj]

any closer shots of Marja yet, Tre reckons that she is way of her game, if possible i'd like to see what he means.

[Harry The Hat]

The question is, is Marja way off her game or simply responding to the instructions to come in smaller and less ripped? If she follows the guidelines and gets punished by the judges for it, it's a mistake she won't make twice.

[CarrieSimmons]

Does anyone know the results for BBing?

[Scott]

Does anyone know the results for BBing?

The finals are this evening.

[CarrieSimmons]

Thanks Scott, I'm a little out of the loop on what they were doing with the women bbers with all the changes.

[Amanda Dunbar]

Looks to me like its between Iris and Dayana.... w/ those two it depends on which standard they are going to go by. Both look phenomenal, but by James' pics, I'd say Iris is definitely harder, yet Dayana's structure looks better to me? This will be a tough call, both look amazing.

I think Yaxeni will be 3rd... Jitka 4th.... Brenda 5th... any other guesses??

Amanda

[GunnersFan]

From what I've seen from the pics I'd bet it's going to be Dayana, Iris, Yaxeni, Brenda, Jitka. However, if I could work some magic you know who would win first.

They all look great and Dayana, whow, she just jumps out at you. She looks great!!!

[Tre]

The last call-out in the muscularity round:

Annie Rivieccio
Tonia Williams
Desiree Ellis
Marja Lehtonen

[Star Blaylock]

I think Yaxeni looks beautiful...her musculature is asthetically pleasing and looks to have the "marketable look" which, to me, is one of the factors the 20% rule was a put into action. That rule worked out perfectly according to plan...right! :D My pick is Yaxeni...there's my two cents! :p

[Amanda Dunbar]

OK.... I'm going to change my prediction.... Here is how it is, after seeing more pics this is my initial reaction of how I think it will go. Nobody freak out because this is MY OPINION ONLY.

This is what i think will happen by the judges:

1st. Iris
2nd. Dayana
3rd Yaxeni
4th Jitka
5th Brenda R.


This is the way "I" would place them....

1st Iris
2nd Dayana
3rd Jitka
4th Yaxeni
5th Brenda R.

I'm really impressed w/ Jitka... next year if she comes in a bit harder, she is going to smoke a lot of people, same with Brenda Raganot....

Yaxeni is looking really really good in the face. Very pretty this year IMO, although structurally her back just doesn't flow well to keep up with Iris and Dayana, due to higher lat insertion and extreme thickness in her upper, middle, lower traps as well as rhomboid areas making her look like she has 2 parts.... an upper body and lower body....SEPARATE instead of an entire physique that flows? Anyone know what I mean... Just my OPINION! Nobody freak out and start bashing me lol.

Iris has really impressed me with her lines, conditioning and CALVES!!! Can we say ridiculous calves? lol.

Dayana overall conditioning, shape, structure.... looks great and face looks great this year. I like her hair too, whether that matters or not? lol.

Amanda

[Amanda Dunbar]

More pictures of the fbb's can be found here:

http://www.bbszene.de/text.php4?id=830

Amanda

[MDF]

Definately Iris Kyle, definately Iris Kyle as No. 1 :) :) :)

She holds superiority in all relevant fbb areas.

Very nice hair also :rolleyes:

[Harry The Hat]

Some more pics here:

http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6059

[Amanda Dunbar]

GREAT LINK! excellent. The more pics I see the more I'm unsure about Dayana and Iris... it could really go either way. Great find!

Amanda

[CalJoe]

I am hoping for Iris to pull it off, but I must say that it looks like it's going to be awfully close between Iris and Dayana. I can't speculate too much, because I'm not there, and I haven't seen too many pictures up to this point. It appears that Iris is a small fraction off from last year, and Dayana looks better than she did last year. I think Yaxeni is pretty solid for 3rd place. I get the feeling that Jitka is going to finish ahead of Betty Viana, and I don't agree should that be the case. I can't imagine that Tonia, Annie, and Desiree' Ellis can be that far off that they would warrant last callouts. I guess we'll have to see as many pictures as possible before I can begin to agree with this last callout. It would be nice to see the women ignore the dreaded 20% less rule by having them all come in big and highly conditioned. I guess the IFBB can still circumvent this collective action by picking the female custodian from backstage :cool:

[CalJoe]

I think Yaxeni looks beautiful...her musculature is asthetically pleasing and looks to have the "marketable look" which, to me, is one of the factors the 20% rule was a put into action. That rule worked out perfectly according to plan...right! :D My pick is Yaxeni...there's my two cents! :p
Yaxeni is the epitome of what a professional should be. She always comes into a show in shape, and is so very courteous to her fans. She is a delight to talk to.

[genex]

Wow Jitka definitely pulled it together from the Charlotte show!

[jarintrn]

Some more pics here:

http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6059

originally it's from: http://ironmancontests.com/

http://ironmancontests.com/index.cfm?go2=contests_year&ContestYearID=184

[Tre]

Yaxeni Oriquen
Brenda Raganot
Bonny Priest
Iris Kyle
Betty Viana
Dayana Cadeau
Toni Norman
Tonia Williams
Rosemary Jennings
Annie Rivieccio
Jitka Harazimova
--------------

In truth, you could make a case for any of those women winning the whole thing.

When that happens, the fans win. Bodybuilding rules.

[BuffDiva]

:eek: Wow!

[Gina Davis]

I will post this here as I have at MM:

I have seen some stage pics of the competitors and have NEVER had such ambivalence towards the outcome of a show. We fbbers look to the Ms. O as the pinnacle, the end all be all, the holy grail, if you will ,of our sport. The person on that stage this year that most represents a package that we should all try to attain if we indeed choose to do so is Yaxeni Oriquen. My feelings are this: if Yaxeni wins this, I will literally jump for joy and have a renewed sense of enthusiasm for this sport. If Iris wins it, words will not be able to describe the disappointment I will feel. I will feel indifferent if Dayana wins...but will be leaning towards the disappointed side. These are MY thoughts as a pro female bodybuilder. After coming off of my injury, I am looking towards the future and the outcome of this show can either light the way or further throw this sport in the ditch. Which will it be???
G

[diamondj]

firstly i agree with Tre, all the girls bring something to the show that could tip the 1st place in their favour (except for a couple who are just not "dialed in") but overall i'm with Gina, Yax in my opinion is (will be/should be) the obvious winner, she just hits all the right buttons.

[MDF]

If Yaxeni looks bigger this year than last year and the ifbb have issued the new -20% guideline - wouldnt it be tough for the judges to place Yaxeni as No 1?

I think Yaxeni is great and she has a lot of muscles, but maby not calves in proportion to the rest of her body..... :rolleyes:

[diamondj]

as an overall on stage package i still think she's the best.
i'm off now, i'll come back later to find out the results. ;)

[Michelle Brent]

I'm sorry Jika is just too smooth in the backside!! Sorry, just fact!!!!

[Melissa&Nancy]

Gina I cant agree with you more!! I think Yax looks like the ultimate fbb should look..(while Lenda is away of course) I to as well as Nancy will be dissapointed if Iris wins. Sure Iris is hard and those legs in some of the pics we seen...WE NEVER have seen anything like that. BUT the entire package just isnt there...she should not be the one to represent US. Someone with a feminine esthetically pleasing physique like Yax should get this Ms. O.

But G dont stop competing. Just get involved in the movement. Nancy and I along with Lisa Aukland and Betty Pariso and a few others are beginning a fight with the IFBB and going on record to try and make some serious changes for the woman. Nancy and I plan on have a meeting for ALL female BB athletes as well as figure and fitness so we can all come together and discuss some issues. We plan on doing this at the Arnolds next year. So dont give up...Even if we both (and I feel many more) are MAJORLY disapointed if Iris wins. You are TOO great and beautiful of a female BB to throw it to the side.

PLEASE LETS CROSS OUR FINGERS FOR YAX!!

Melissa Cota

[BodybuilderBeth]

Gina I cant agree with you more!! I think Yax looks like the ultimate fbb should look..(while Lenda is away of course) I to as well as Nancy will be dissapointed if Iris wins. Sure Iris is hard and those legs in some of the pics we seen...WE NEVER have seen anything like that. BUT the entire package just isnt there...she should not be the one to represent US. Someone with a feminine esthetically pleasing physique like Yax should get this Ms. O.

But G dont stop competing. Just get involved in the movement. Nancy and I along with Lisa Aukland and Betty Pariso and a few others are beginning a fight with the IFBB and going on record to try and make some serious changes for the woman. Nancy and I plan on have a meeting for ALL female BB athletes as well as figure and fitness so we can all come together and discuss some issues. We plan on doing this at the Arnolds next year. So dont give up...Even if we both (and I feel many more) are MAJORLY disapointed if Iris wins. You are TOO great and beautiful of a female BB to throw it to the side.

PLEASE LETS CROSS OUR FINGERS FOR YAX!!

Melissa Cota

Hi Melissa! Please let me know how I can be a part of your plan....for I am all for making some changes! If you've read some of the threads I've posted on the 'so-called' athletes meeting and the whole Bob Chicarillo ordeal, you'll see my passion on getting the ball rolling on this!

Beth Roberts

[Melissa&Nancy]

Hi Beth,:-)

nancy sends a hello she said she hasnt seen you in awhile.:-) She sends her best.
Yes, the entire Bob C thing is what they say was the straw that broke the back. Nancy read the article and was just really upset...exspecially after our run in with Dave Palumbo and his comments. We got in touch with as many woman as we could and were SO surprised at everyones overwhelming response to support a change. Nancy filed a registered letter sent to Manion, AMI and sent a copy to Betty as well. We arent sure if she got it in time for the Ms. O press confrence. You know how nancy is. She has always been a great silent player of the sport. But she feels she has proven herself for nearly 20+ years and a IFBB pro since 1991 and she sais she is just tired of setting back in the wack. I am proud of her.

Listen, there is some other news going on that we got recently of a new federation getting started. How can I send you a private thread to send you are number or send me your private email so I can fill you in on everything.

thanks Beth,

Melissa

[Harry The Hat]

I hope Dayana takes it. The winner of the Ms. O pretty much dictates the direction of the sport for the following year. After Kim first won the O, women started looking to get real ripped. When Iris started winning, pro women took that as a green light for increased mass.

Iris is strong in all areas. Yaxeni has managed to create a physique that's big but with great lines. I just think that, when you take that one step back, Dayana has better aesthetics. I also think it would be good for the sport. Whichever of the three wins, it won’t be an outrage. Whoever wins, the other women will look at her and their own physiques and move towards the new (or more accurately, revised) ideal.

For a lot of people, there's not so much ambivalence as confusion. No one knows who's going to win, no one's quite sure how the judging criteria are going to be applied, no one's sure how definitive the outcome will be.

[Michelle Brent]

Dayana is just to damn hard, you all are saying Iris is, but Dayana is just as hard, just a smaller version, so my hat is off to Yaxeni, cause she has the right amount of muscle and hardness for you height and structure(and there is nothing wrong with her back)

[Michelle Brent]

Hi Mellisa and Nancy, Melissa tell Nanc Hi, this is Michelle Ivers, now Brent, heck Nanc knows how long I've been around. LOL!! Even though I am not pro I would love to participate in meetings!! Hugs,

[Melissa&Nancy]

Hiiii Michelle:-)

nance said HI! she laughed when she read your post....she said Yes, I think me and michelle have been doing this sport FOREVER!!! And Michelle WE ALL KNOW you should have had your pro card LONG ago! You look great so just keep up the good work.

But yes, the more the marrier...we need LOTS of female competitors to get this thing going. We plan on reserving a spot at the Arnolds for the meeting. When the time comes closer I will get back on her and post all the information. I can say there is a new federation coming out in 2006. nancy and I are not allowed to discuss who it is as of yet. But they are really great people. They want nancy to be the first pro female to come aboard but with anything we want to throughly check everything out first. Plus she wants to do the Arnolds next year.
But this new federation is going to be promoting both Pro and amatuer level female bodybuilding. As of right now there are 8 pro shows scheduled for next year and I believe 9-10 amatuer shows. I dont have the specifics on prize money but here is the site to check it out. I have been told that the site is not yet finished that this was just a prelim...(www.officialwpi.com)

Stay in touch ok.

Hugs,

Melissa

[Michelle Brent]

Cool, I've seen that site, and heard of it, keep me informed. I'll pm my e-mail address.
Hope Nancs' knee is doing good, I can kind of empathize as my husband(got married a yr ago) ruptured both patella tendons a few months ago, it affected me I think more then him, he's such a positive force!! hope to make the Arnold next yr, and will definetely be rooting for Nancy in a win!!!

[Amanda Dunbar]

OK just got the results....

1st Yaxeni
2nd Iris
3rd Dayana
4th Jitka
5th Brenda R

[unreal_1]

http://ironmancontests.com/index.cfm?go2=contests_year&ContestYearID=184

[Melissa&Nancy]

HEY EVERYONE YAXENI WON!!!!!! YEAHHHHH!!!!!!


2nd Iris
3rd Dayana
4th Chitka
5th Brenda

[Amanda Dunbar]

Steve W. said that Yaxeni's routine was amazing and everyone loved it. He said it was "poetic" and her poses fit her body perfectly.

[Gina Davis]

I was out shopping (what's new? lol!) and got a text about the winner. I am telling you, I almost wrecked my car!! SO EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!! Yaxeni not only won, SHE WON FOR ALL OF US!!!! I am absolutely thrilled---onward and upward ladies!
YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
G

[Michelle Brent]

Yeah Yaxeni, Bueno, Bueno!!!
Just the right amount of conditioning,
I think my girl Mah-Ann got overlooked, I know both her and Brenda, but
I feel she has a more complete physique from top to bottom.

[jarintrn]

Big congratulation for Yaxeni - Queen of elegance
and also for Jitka - girl of my country.
My wishes came true.

[strong woman]

I am also so pleased that we got the right result, what a change that makes!!!!

Way to go!

Please Gina, I am hoping you will be at the Arnold, I would love to see you compete! If not just come and mingle like the rest of us. It is such a great place to see everyone. I am coming over from England for the 6th time since 1993, and I just love the Arnold!

Hanne

[Maxt]

Congrats Yaxeni. You were looking really good on that stage.

[Maxt]

I am also so pleased that we got the right result, what a change that makes!!!!

Way to go!

Please Gina, I am hoping you will be at the Arnold, I would love to see you compete! If not just come and mingle like the rest of us. It is such a great place to see everyone. I am coming over from England for the 6th time since 1993, and I just love the Arnold!

HanneHanne, I am going to try and see you at the Arnold this time.

[strong woman]

Yes we will meet up at the Arnold. I will get a message to you closer to the date so we can set the meet up!!

Hanne

I am so looking forward to seeing who will be competing in the FBB at the Arnold!

[diamondj]

i'd just like to say congratulations to Ms O(riquen) :D . Yax looked perfect and for rare a moment the judges have made an excellent decision, hopefully this will help in directing womens bodybuilding toward it's true potential. lastly i would just like to say to all the competitors you all looked marvellous and well done to all of you.

[Maxt]

OK just got the results....

1st Yaxeni
2nd Iris
3rd Dayana
4th Jitka
5th Brenda R I think those placings make sense to me top to bottom based on these pictures I have seen coming off of that website www.bbszene.de

[SteelWill]

Yaxeni as #1 in the 2005 Olympia is exactly what fem bodybuilding needed!

[MDF]

Well congratulations to Yaxeni - but she looks funny with that super over muscular upper body, super big quads and almost no calves :rolleyes:

[ibarramedia]

I will post this here as I have at MM:

I have seen some stage pics of the competitors and have NEVER had such ambivalence towards the outcome of a show. We fbbers look to the Ms. O as the pinnacle, the end all be all, the holy grail, if you will ,of our sport. The person on that stage this year that most represents a package that we should all try to attain if we indeed choose to do so is Yaxeni Oriquen. My feelings are this: if Yaxeni wins this, I will literally jump for joy and have a renewed sense of enthusiasm for this sport. If Iris wins it, words will not be able to describe the disappointment I will feel. I will feel indifferent if Dayana wins...but will be leaning towards the disappointed side. These are MY thoughts as a pro female bodybuilder. After coming off of my injury, I am looking towards the future and the outcome of this show can either light the way or further throw this sport in the ditch. Which will it be???
G

My lady Gina, looks like you were right on this one. Let us celebrate Yaxeni's glorious victory. Hopefully we can do the same for you in the future. Here's to you not having to eat your shoes. :)

[Tin Nuts]

Congratulations Ms. Oriquen! You were my fav going in and I'm glad the judges finally agreed with me. lol. What can I say? I think the world of all the other competitors but only one can win. I'm very happy it was Yaxeni this time. Size, shape and grace! :D

There's no comin' back from the Yax attack!

[James]

hey all,

Guess I'm kinda late with the results:( But here's some pix anyway!

[Scott]

WTG Yaxeni! Who dare says fbb is dying :)

[ibarramedia]

I was out shopping (what's new? lol!) and got a text about the winner. I am telling you, I almost wrecked my car!! SO EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!! Yaxeni not only won, SHE WON FOR ALL OF US!!!! I am absolutely thrilled---onward and upward ladies!
YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
G

I love Yaxeni Gina. Glad she won. Now I hope to see you win next year. Make it happen G. Take care.

[ibarramedia]

hey all,

Guess I'm kinda late with the results:( But here's some pix anyway!


All hail the new Champ!

[FBBFan_de]

Grats to Yaxeni !! :)

[MDF]

I'm just hoping the ifbb is not trying to kill fbb entirely with this new Ms O title. Besides being the best bodybuilder I think the Ms O can play an important role as an ambassador and spokeswoman for professional female bodybuilding.

I believe the professional female bodybuilders needs a good ambassador and good spokeswoman for the sport right now and the Ms O can play an important role - lets hope Yaxeni will speak up for pro fbb!!!! :rolleyes:

[Tre]

1) I heard that the hall was absolutely packed for the Ms. O Finals.

2) I heard that everyone was very pleased with the final results.

3) Based on what I saw Friday, the placings are fine.

4) Kim Perez (in shape) is unbeatable at the 'new' pro level. ;)

[diamondj]

what was the prize money this year for winning the Ms O and for second and third? i know it's crappy compared to the men but how much was it?

[Harry The Hat]

I’m delighted to hear that the hall was full. It does prove the point that the FBB fans were making up a large part of the attendance at the combined figure/fitness/FBB Ms O shows. I’d be interested to hear how many tickets were sold for the figure/fitness.

Next year, I’d like to see Betty (or someone very like her) promote or co-promote the Ms O. Hold the contest at the same venue as the other events – to keep costs down – but sell separate tickets for the bodybuilding. As a co-promoter, Betty can add to the prize fund available to the competitors by arranging smaller part-sponsor deals with those specifically interested in supporting women’s bodybuilding – in particular, the web enterprises that the IFBB currently treat with such suspicion.

Having someone like Betty directing the event would ensure fair and equal treatment of the athletes at the O and would enable her to market it successfully. This has been a good year for women’s bodybuilding, and it will get a lot better in 2006 if the women have greater independence and organization.

[strong woman]

I cannot see that Yaxeni might not be able to speak much english as a problem. Miss Olympia is an international competition, so why expect the winner to be able to speak perfect english? What if Jitka had won, she speaks no english at all.

Yes I can understand your wish for the winner to become more of a spokes woman for the FBB, but we know that the "powers to be" do not promote the shows much or any sponsorships are being offered to the women.

Hanne

[hans]

James - great shot of all the crowds surrounding Yaxeni! I love pics like that that give you a sense of what it's like to be there.

Hans

[Alexander]

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/4752/ddd6mm.gif
WOW!!!

[Maxt]

I cannot see that Yaxeni might not be able to speak much english as a problem. Hanne, Yaxeni speaks English fluently.

[Maxt]

I have heard that Yaxeni barely speaks english (Nothing wrong with that - but it might be a problem for pro fbb).
Who told you this?

[SteelWill]

Any photos of Davina getting her 2005 Olympia Figure awards?

[Tre]

Any photos of Davina getting her 2005 Olympia Figure awards?
I think they already shot those photos a month or so ago.

[SteelWill]

I was asking if anyone has any photographs of Davana at the Olympia, maybe a photo of her receiving the award and her with top 5.

[Maxt]

There might be another website where you can get that? I'll check for you?

[rick]

Anyone?
Thanks
Rick

[Alexander]

I was asking if anyone has any photographs of Davana at the Olympia, maybe a photo of her receiving the award and her with top 5.
DAVANA (http://www.ironmancontests.com/pop_photos.cfm?ContestRosterID=7155)
:cool:
http://www.body-building.ru/forums/uploads/post-2-1129560341.jpg

[Tre]

Here ya go...

[rick]

Can´t find any results.

[Maxt]

Had to go check out some Football. I think that German website http://www.bbszene.de has got everybody scooped? Keep checking that.

[FBBFan_de]

I watch this forum very often for updates ;)

[SteelWill]

Jen Hendershot finally won the Olympia Fitness!!!

[ibarramedia]

It would be my wish that Yaxeni gets mentioned in sportscenter and makes the round of interviews in the morningshows like the today show, cold pizza,the early show, good morning america, etc.

[SteelWill]

OK Folks page 3 has the 2005 Olympia female bodybuilder photo, this page has a photograph of the Figure winner, so all that is left is, Does anyone have a photo from the Olympia competition of Jenny Hendershot, the Fitness winner to post?

[James]

Here are 3 consecutive photos of the line of people who waited to see the Female Bodybuilding at the expo. These are the non-vip's. The VIP's lined up going in the opposite direction and the line was about half as long as this one. It may be a little difficult to see, but the line goes along the back wall and curves back toward me

[James]

Here's two shots of the size of the audience for the 2pm finals.

[Mike]

James, don't you know FBB is dead and they can't market it? :mad:

[Tre]

Yeah, James, what are you trying to do? Expose the IFBB/AMI/Pecker/Weider for the pack of liars they are???

If "no one" wants to see women's bodybuilding, then why were so many people complaining about being unable to see the show or to get a halfway decent seat?

[Michelle Brent]

1- Yaxeni Oriquen* :D
2- Iris Kyle* :confused:
3- Dayana Cadeau*
4- Jitka Harazimova*
5- Brenda Raganot*
6- Bonnie Priest
7- Betty Viana
8- Betty Pariso :eek:
9- Rosemary Jennings
10-Toni Norman
11-Mah-Ann Mendoza
12-Tonia Williams
13-Annie Rivieccio :(
14-Marja Lethonen
15-Desiree Ellis

Top 6 qualify for 2006 Ms. Olympia

[Gina Davis]

Congrats to my girl Bonny for making the top 6! Michelle, I see that you indicated that the top 6 qualify for the Ms. O next year not top 5 right??? Yay Bon!!!
G

[genex]

Yep that's right - so Bonnie's in!

[Michelle Brent]

Hi Gina, Yeah, I was happy for her, love her look, I was so disppointed for Annie though, and felt Mah-Ann deserved higher, but I'm not going to beat the placings to death, just take it for what it is!!

[CalJoe]

First of all, I want to congratulate Yaxeni on her win. She has been a great and very dignified pro for the last 12 years, and I am excited for her. Yaxeni is friends with my ex-wife, and I have talked to Yaxeni numerous times over the years. She is great with her fans and a class act all the way.

After looking at some pics I feel that this was a very, very close show between Yaxeni, Iris, and Dayan. I am curious as to what criteria was used for the judging. Was it the recently emerged 20% less rule? If so, I would like some clarification. First of all, Yaxeni didn't come into this show 20% less in any aspect of her physique. If anything it is remarkable how consistent Yaxeni is with regard to what she brings to the stage year after year. If anything, Yaxeni is bigger than Iris. If the 20% rule was invoked to move away from the bigger, harder competitors and in the direction of the more balanced, aesthetic, symmetrical bodybuilder than who encapsulates that more than Iris. Her symmetry and the aeshetic quality of her physique is unparalled in the sport, with the exception of the recently retired Lenda Murray. You can argue that perhaps Iris is "too conditioned", whatever that means, and I couldn't really take issues with that evaluation. Lenda was just as ripped, shredded, and conditioned as Iris was in 2002, 2003, and 2004, and I don't recall any complaints of Lenda being "too hard". Iris and Lenda have almost identical physiques with regard to size to frame, conditoning, and symmetry, yet people discuss Lenda and Iris like they are apples and oranges. Well to be honest, Lenda and Iris ARE apples and oranges when it comes to photogenic appeal. Can this be the factor and criteria that we're talking about? Iris' look doesn't appear to have been brought on through the use/abuse of anabolics. Michelle Brent might be able to qualify what I'm saying, but I believe Iris has always looked the way she does, and it's a shame that people hold that against her. There are a lot of people hoping for the marketing campaign that never seems to come. It was supposed to come in 1992, then in 2000, and it never came. Will it come this time? What I'm trying to find out is; if the 20% rule was enforced at this year's Olympia then how was it enforced? Was it enforced by picking a winner that may have been the biggest competitor on stage, and who didn't come in 20% less than last year?

Don't get me wrong. I love what Yaxeni brings, and I have been a fan of her since I met in Puerto Rico at the IFBB Caribbean show where Yaxeni got her card (my ex-wife competed at the same show). My question is with regard to trying to establish exactly what criteria was used in this show, and why does it seem like there are no clear answers. I'm sure there are a lot of other people, including some female bb'ers that are wondering the same.

[Michelle Brent]

I beleive Joe that the 20%was inforced in the conditioning department. I got that feeling from that rule all along, and that seems apparant in Yaxenis' win. She was still lean, and hard, but not "off the hook" in her conditioning. Her size fits her frame so her muscle size did not seem to be the issue, as it was not in let's say Dayana, who is only around 5' 2 or 3 and is veery muscualer for her frame, but it still is flows with her frame.
Bottom line 20%= less conditioning.

[Maxt]

Yaxeni won the Ms. Olympia because she was the best bodybuilder on the stage according to judging panel?

[Michelle Brent]

What's up with you Maxt. all was positively said about Yaxeni, no qualms here or from Joe, What up???

[Maxt]

Who do you think should have won Michelle?

[Michelle Brent]

Yaxeni all the way!
Iris has great symmetry and lines, she is just damn rock hard, so i'm actually suprised they had her in second.

[Maxt]

I think Iris looked better this year, but I want to see some more pictures. I agree Yaxeni won. I thought Yaxeni should have been more seriously considered for the top spot in some previous years. Oh I know Yaxeni too, she was working for "The Beast" sports nutrition company and I talked to her a lot about her career, how she loves bodybuilding, living and training in Miami, going on Univision to talk about bodybuilding, the politics of the IFBB etc.. She did the best she could do with her genetics, she kept at it and she won the Ms. Olympia.. Now if you want to say that sometimes comparing these ladies' physiques is like comparing apples and oranges, I'd agree to that. There are intangibles and a subjective dimension to judging shows including beauty. http://www.billdobbins.com/PUBLIC/pages/coolfree/guidelines.html

[Maxt]

After looking at some pics I feel that this was a very, very close show between Yaxeni, Iris, and Dayan. I am curious as to what criteria was used for the judging. Was it the recently emerged 20% less rule? If so, I would like some clarification. First of all, Yaxeni didn't come into this show 20% less in any aspect of her physique. If anything it is remarkable how consistent Yaxeni is with regard to what she brings to the stage year after year. If anything, Yaxeni is bigger than Iris. If the 20% rule was invoked to move away from the bigger, harder competitors and in the direction of the more balanced, aesthetic, symmetrical bodybuilder than who encapsulates that more than Iris. Her symmetry and the aeshetic quality of her physique is unparalled in the sport, with the exception of the recently retired Lenda Murray. You can argue that perhaps Iris is "too conditioned", whatever that means, and I couldn't really take issues with that evaluation. Lenda was just as ripped, shredded, and conditioned as Iris was in 2002, 2003, and 2004, and I don't recall any complaints of Lenda being "too hard". Iris and Lenda have almost identical physiques with regard to size to frame, conditoning, and symmetry, yet people discuss Lenda and Iris like they are apples and oranges. Well to be honest, Lenda and Iris ARE apples and oranges when it comes to photogenic appeal. Can this be the factor and criteria that we're talking about? Iris' look doesn't appear to have been brought on through the use/abuse of anabolics. Michelle Brent might be able to qualify what I'm saying, but I believe Iris has always looked the way she does, and it's a shame that people hold that against her. There are a lot of people hoping for the marketing campaign that never seems to come. It was supposed to come in 1992, then in 2000, and it never came. Will it come this time? What I'm trying to find out is; if the 20% rule was enforced at this year's Olympia then how was it enforced? Was it enforced by picking a winner that may have been the biggest competitor on stage, and who didn't come in 20% less than last year?
I think Iris looked different around 2000 and prior. She had strong legs. If you remember 2000, wasn't Iris was disqualified for drugs-not anabolic steroids? http://www.billdobbins.com/PUBLIC/pages/contests/2000_contests/Arnold/msinrpt.html

[A.J.]

I feel bad for Marja, but it seems she was off her game. Or she got caught up in trying to guess what the judges want from her. Seems to me when a body like Marja goes a bit smaller, it all comes off her arms and shoulders and makes her look blockier than usual and unbalanced with her naturally big quads, thicker waist and shorter legs. Seems to me some physiques need a little more size than others to look "Balanced." I think Marja looks more shapely and balanced bigger, like she was last year. And particularly in, what was it 2000 or 2001 when she debuted as a pro?

Are the weight classes gone for all Pro shows now, or will it be decided show by show?

A.J.

[Maxt]

I think Chad Nicholls said they wanted to make just one class in the future as things were before 2000. I'll look into that?

[A.J.]

Here are 3 consecutive photos of the line of people who waited to see the Female Bodybuilding at the expo. These are the non-vip's. The VIP's lined up going in the opposite direction and the line was about half as long as this one. It may be a little difficult to see, but the line goes along the back wall and curves back toward me

So as far as "Butts in the seats" goes James, how was the show attended?

AJ

[Tre]

Hi Gina, Yeah, I was happy for her, love her look, I was so disppointed for Annie though, and felt Mah-Ann deserved higher, but I'm not going to beat the placings to death, just take it for what it is!!

That's the thing - everyone looked so good that it could be argued that several could've or should've placed higher, but there just weren't enough top placings to go around!

The judges had a virtually impossible task, which made this event great for the fans.

[Tre]

Are the weight classes gone for all Pro shows now, or will it be decided show by show?

From the 2005 Olympia onward, there will be one class for women's bodybuilding, just as with all other IFBB pro divisions.

[fbbhubby]

The reason they moved the finals to the expo was purportedly to increase the exposure of fbb. That was definitely accomplished!! All the seats where you could see were taken. And the standing room only crowd watching from behind the ropes in the back was about 6-10 deep!!
It was extremely hard to get a good seat as the VIP ticket holders got first crack at the best seats and they took up half of the center section. Regular expo people got the wings (which were too far to the side) and the back of the center (which filled up first). They couldn't handle the amount of people who wanted to see the pro fbb.

AMI/IFBB have got to see that there is a huge amount of interest in fbb. They just need to figure out how to promote and market it.

[Mike]

it's always the same way at the Arnold. It baffles me when people say there is no appeal - then why is it so damned hard to see the stage through the crowds?

[A.J.]

The reason they moved the finals to the expo was purportedly to increase the exposure of fbb. That was definitely accomplished!! All the seats where you could see were taken. And the standing room only crowd watching from behind the ropes in the back was about 6-10 deep!!
It was extremely hard to get a good seat as the VIP ticket holders got first crack at the best seats and they took up half of the center section. Regular expo people got the wings (which were too far to the side) and the back of the center (which filled up first). They couldn't handle the amount of people who wanted to see the pro fbb.

AMI/IFBB have got to see that there is a huge amount of interest in fbb. They just need to figure out how to promote and market it.

Alright, so as insulting as the move was initially interpreted (me included) could a few things have been learned? Not that the move was meant to do anything but demean the competitors, but could it have backfired and shown that if it is made a bit easier for folks to attend, they will.

Like perhaps one of the reasons the traditional "Night Shows" were not well attended was because Ticket prices had gotten out of hand? Perhaps the fact that traditionally the Ms. O was on the same night after the big Expo during the day. Meaning that alot of potential attendees had spent most of a long day trodding the Expo and were just too tired to do something that night?

What if the Ms O finals were held in a large Ballroom in the hosting Convention Center (or facility) in the middle of the expo day, so that people could take a load off for 2 hours while at the Expo. For say, 10 or 15 bucks a head. Do you think that might help attendance? Making it more attractive to an average fan that might be attending the expo.

Just some thoughts. If they are not going to promote the show properly, then perhaps just making the show as easy to attend as possible IS the way to go.

Or maybe not? Thoughts?

AJ

[mark000]

Some very quick comments until I recover from a 14-hour return trip, not counting waiting for my suitcase to be delivered :-(

All the pro FBBers looked awesome, all are winners.

Yaxeni was the overwhelming choice of the audience, including me. From the knees up her development and symmetry looked a little better than Iris, who remains great. Yaxeni was bigger than Iris, but her body holds a lot of muscle in perfect harmony. She has awesome development, fantastic lines, and her sexiness electrified the audience. Yaxeni seemed to be leading after the prejudging, and once she began her routine I knew it was all over.

Iris was a little harder than Yaxeni, but her physique isn't quite as harmonious, and Iris didn't hold herself as regally as Yaxeni or Dayana. Iris routine did not do justice to her physique.

The audience's second choice, from the crowd response to the finals routines, was Annie, who definitely belonged in the top 5 or higher. As a complete package of both physique and presentation, I would put her second.

Tonie Norman also had a standout routine, but her physique looked too small to be competitive on that level.

The main victim of the new so-called criteria was the most muscular woman in the field, Marja Lehtonen, who is also quite feminine and attractive in person, and more symmetrical than, for example, Dayana Cadeau. Marja has fixed her one previous weakness, the back which is now excellent, and she has the best biceps and triceps there, (maybe also best calves, I'll look for a comparison with Iris), and great quads, pecs, and abs.

Dayana was in great condition, has a beautiful face, and is fantastic at selling what she has, but that does not include top 5, or even top 10 abs or arms. Her high placings continue to mystify me.

Jitka and Brenda have stunningly beautiful lines, which to me means that if their muscularity were competitive they would be top contenders. This year they belonged in the top 5 only in the symmetry round.

In addition to Yaxeni, Annie, Iris and Marja, I would put Betty Viana and Rosemary Jennings in the top 6 (since 6 get automatic qualification). It is hard to choose between them, both are spectacular. Betty was bigger, Rose harder, both have a lot of great parts and are fantastically sexy.

Once again, all the Olympians are champions in my book.

[Tre]

The main victim of the new so-called criteria was the most muscular woman in the field, Marja Lehtonen, who is also quite feminine and attractive in person, and more symmetrical than, for example, Dayana Cadeau. Marja has fixed her one previous weakness, the back which is now excellent, and she has the best biceps and triceps there, (maybe also best calves, I'll look for a comparison with Iris), and great quads, pecs, and abs.
With all due respect, you're off your rocker. Maybe you're suffering from travel fatigue here, but it's clear that you weren't watching the same show as everyone else if you think Lehtonen and "symmetry" can be used in the same sentence.

She's got a great musclebuilder physique, but not a good bodybuilding physique. Maybe you should call for the creation of an "unlimited" division (or federation) where the goal is to build each muscle as big as possible.

In addition to Yaxeni, Annie, Iris and Marja, I would put Betty Viana and Rosemary Jennings in the top 6 (since 6 get automatic qualification). It is hard to choose between them, both are spectacular. Betty was bigger, Rose harder, both have a lot of great parts and are fantastically sexy.

You're heavily biased towards your personal favorites and that removes any degree of objectivity from your post. I appreciate your photography and the fact that you made the trip to support the women (as you have so many times before).

That said, there were some weird call-outs, but in the end, there just were not enough of the higher placings to go around.

[pussycat]

I will post this here as I have at MM:

I have seen some stage pics of the competitors and have NEVER had such ambivalence towards the outcome of a show. We fbbers look to the Ms. O as the pinnacle, the end all be all, the holy grail, if you will ,of our sport. The person on that stage this year that most represents a package that we should all try to attain if we indeed choose to do so is Yaxeni Oriquen. My feelings are this: if Yaxeni wins this, I will literally jump for joy and have a renewed sense of enthusiasm for this sport. If Iris wins it, words will not be able to describe the disappointment I will feel. I will feel indifferent if Dayana wins...but will be leaning towards the disappointed side. These are MY thoughts as a pro female bodybuilder. After coming off of my injury, I am looking towards the future and the outcome of this show can either light the way or further throw this sport in the ditch. Which will it be???
G

Gina,

I just wanted to comment on your reply about Iris or Dayana winning. Have you ever stood in person beside either one of these spectacular women or seen them up on stage..... live up front & in person, going through their mandatories. What about compete beside them? If so, I would have to think that you would not be saying these words and give them the respect that they so truly deserve. All three of these ladies deserved to win and are the top of the sport at the present moment. The future of the sport is right here and now with those women being the best in the world today!!! Please show some respect to your fellow athletes.....

[mark000]

Tre
You're heavily biased towards your personal favorites and that removes any degree of objectivity from your post.....

That said, there were some weird call-outs, but in the end, there just were not enough of the higher placings to go around.

There would have been *exactly* enough high placings to go around if there were 3 classes.

My subjective opinion is my subjective opinion. Likewise for you, and for the judges. Unlike some, I am willing to explain and defend my opinions.

I admit to being a long-term fan of Annie and Yaxeni, as well as Rosemary, (also Heather Foster, who wasn't competing). But one objective fact is the number and intensity of spontaneous outbreaks of applause during Annie's routine. Another is the audience reaction to Yaxeni, who was clearly the people's choice.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Marja. When I say she is symmetrical, I mean that her huge triceps balance her jaw-dropping biceps, her awesome legs balance her spectacular arms, her upper torso has a good (though not great) V-shape, her abs are well defined. Her arms and legs aren't only huge, but are well shaped, flowing from end to end. Also, in non-athletic, "package" qualities, her skin is good and her face is very pretty, and her hips are curvier than some women who get points for femininity.

[Echo]

I was out shopping (what's new? lol!) and got a text about the winner. I am telling you, I almost wrecked my car!! SO EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!! Yaxeni not only won, SHE WON FOR ALL OF US!!!! I am absolutely thrilled---onward and upward ladies!
YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
G

Lovely Gina: Yaxeni is certainly a bodybuilder who I admire as well as you do. She certainly has worked very hard over a long period of time, but I would respectfully tell you this: Iris also won for all FBB's, so did Julliette, Valentina, Lenda, Kim, Corey, Carla, and Rachel. I understand your enthusiasm, but it might be advisable for everyone to do a quick "sensitivity check." Because you are a consumate professional, I know you will understand the intent of this post.

[Tre]

I understand your enthusiasm, but it might be advisable for everyone to do a quick "sensitivity check." Because you are a consumate professional, I know you will understand the intent of this post.

No one's emotions should be checked at the door. She's earned the right to be excited about her sport.

[CalJoe]

Some very quick comments until I recover from a 14-hour return trip, not counting waiting for my suitcase to be delivered :-(

All the pro FBBers looked awesome, all are winners.

Yaxeni was the overwhelming choice of the audience, including me. From the knees up her development and symmetry looked a little better than Iris, who remains great. Yaxeni was bigger than Iris, but her body holds a lot of muscle in perfect harmony. She has awesome development, fantastic lines, and her sexiness electrified the audience. Yaxeni seemed to be leading after the prejudging, and once she began her routine I knew it was all over.

Iris was a little harder than Yaxeni, but her physique isn't quite as harmonious, and Iris didn't hold herself as regally as Yaxeni or Dayana. Iris routine did not do justice to her physique.

The audience's second choice, from the crowd response to the finals routines, was Annie, who definitely belonged in the top 5 or higher. As a complete package of both physique and presentation, I would put her second.

Tonie Norman also had a standout routine, but her physique looked too small to be competitive on that level.

The main victim of the new so-called criteria was the most muscular woman in the field, Marja Lehtonen, who is also quite feminine and attractive in person, and more symmetrical than, for example, Dayana Cadeau. Marja has fixed her one previous weakness, the back which is now excellent, and she has the best biceps and triceps there, (maybe also best calves, I'll look for a comparison with Iris), and great quads, pecs, and abs.

Dayana was in great condition, has a beautiful face, and is fantastic at selling what she has, but that does not include top 5, or even top 10 abs or arms. Her high placings continue to mystify me.

Jitka and Brenda have stunningly beautiful lines, which to me means that if their muscularity were competitive they would be top contenders. This year they belonged in the top 5 only in the symmetry round.

In addition to Yaxeni, Annie, Iris and Marja, I would put Betty Viana and Rosemary Jennings in the top 6 (since 6 get automatic qualification). It is hard to choose between them, both are spectacular. Betty was bigger, Rose harder, both have a lot of great parts and are fantastically sexy.

Once again, all the Olympians are champions in my book.
Sexiness??? I was never aware of that being a criteria. So I take it that a lesbian has no chance of being Ms. Olympia?

[mark000]

Sexiness??? I was never aware of that being a criteria. So I take it that a lesbian has no chance of being Ms. Olympia?


I think this underlies a lot of the convoluted rhetoric we hear from the BBing powers that be. Sex sells, so sexiness = marketability.

BTW, I can think of some lesbians I find VERY sexy - Nicole Pfutzenreuter for one.

[CalJoe]

I think this underlies a lot of the convoluted rhetoric we hear from the BBing powers that be. Sex sells, so sexiness = marketability.

BTW, I can think of some lesbians I find VERY sexy - Nicole Pfutzenreuter for one.
Explain to me exactly how the IFBB, NPC, and the muscle magazines are going to parlay Yaxeni's win into a marketing bonanza.

[CalJoe]

Yaxeni won the Ms. Olympia because she was the best bodybuilder on the stage according to judging panel?
I beg to differ. Yaxeni, as great a bodybuilder as she is, won because she is the more popular bodybuilder according to whatever obscure criteria the judges are going by, not necessarily because she is the better bodybuilder as defined by size, conditioning (yes folks, conditioning) and symmetry (nobody touches Iris here either). I am very happy for Yaxeni, and I congratulate her, but let's not get carried away either by making drawing conclusions on an event that is so subjective and a system that is so flawed.

[ibarramedia]

I think this underlies a lot of the convoluted rhetoric we hear from the BBing powers that be. Sex sells, so sexiness = marketability.

BTW, I can think of some lesbians I find VERY sexy - Nicole Pfutzenreuter for one.

I thought Nicole was bi. I remember reading somewhere that she doesn't mind being with guys as with girls. Oh well.

[Gina Davis]

Gina,

I just wanted to comment on your reply about Iris or Dayana winning. Have you ever stood in person beside either one of these spectacular women or seen them up on stage..... live up front & in person, going through their mandatories. What about compete beside them? If so, I would have to think that you would not be saying these words and give them the respect that they so truly deserve. All three of these ladies deserved to win and are the top of the sport at the present moment. The future of the sport is right here and now with those women being the best in the world today!!! Please show some respect to your fellow athletes.....

Hey there "pussycat"!

Well, if you had done your homework on me, you would know that I just turned professional late last year and have since then had surgery on a bicep tear which has prevented me from stepping on that pro stage to "compete beside" these ladies. And trust me when I tell you this: WHAT I SAID IS WHAT I MEAN. I do not mix words and DO NOT lack the power of my convictions. I did not "disrespect" them with my thoughts and feel that they certainly deserve to be among the "best in the world today"...I just feel that Yaxeni is THE best in the world today and was simply stating that. I have my reasons for feeling this way which was implied through my thoughts of "disappointment" and "indifference" if either Iris or Dayana won. It's too bad that you felt that I was disrespecting these two ladies--I was NOT. I was expressing how I felt during that moment and how I felt the outcome of this show would affect ME personally as well as a whole host of my fellow fbbers that feel the same way I do. (I know this because we have a nice "network" of ladies that keep in touch behind the scenes). I appreciate your attempt in trying to take me to task on my personal statements...it has simply not changed a thing---but the effort was duly noted. :rolleyes:

Have a nice day kitty,
G

[Echo]

No one's emotions should be checked at the door. She's earned the right to be excited about her sport.


But Gina Davis did not earn the right to make an insensitive and disrespectful comment which, I believe, she made on the basis of overenthusiasm.

Gina specifically stated that Yaxeni "WON FOR ALL OF US." This implies that Iris, the returning champion was not a worthy champion or a bodybuilder that was not a good representative of the sport. This is a legitimate interpretation of that statement.

Instead of trying to ingratiate yourself to Gina by trying to provide cover for her statement, you should just let Gina address the issue for herself. She is certainly astutute enough to do so without you being her mouthpiece.

Now, at the risk of attracting Gina's ire, I think that Pussycat raised an important point that was overlooked. Everyone knows that Gina suffered a devastating injury that has temporarily stalled her pro carreer and we all wish her a speedy recovery. BUT, Gina has never stood next to Iris in a contest line-up, because if she did Gina's jaw would drop at "hello." Iris is an amazing physical specimen to behold in person, just ask anyone who has actually lined up next to her. She is just that good a bodybuilder. While I personally don't find her aesthetics to be my "cup of tea," and I feel the same way about Ronny Coleman, she is, in my opinion, the most formidable "pure" bodybuilder on the planet.

I 'm sorry Gina, be kind with me, but there is something strange about this "Pussycat" that suggests to me that she knows what she is talking about. Anyone have some milk?

[Tre]

But Gina Davis did not earn the right to make an insensitive and disrespectful comment which, I believe, she made on the basis of overenthusiasm.That's your interpretation, and I'm sure most people will agree that you're certainly welcome to your opinion.
Instead of trying to ingratiate yourself to Gina by trying to provide cover for her statement, you should just let Gina address the issue for herself. She is certainly astutute enough to do so without you being her mouthpiece.Just as you do not have the right to silence Gina's remarks, neither do you have the right (nor ability) to determine what I will say in response to any event, judging decision, message board post, etc. Gina can - and has - spoken for herself. I have spoken for myself. If you think I'm in the market for 'brownie points', however, you obviously don't know me very well.
While I personally don't find her aesthetics to be my "cup of tea," and I feel the same way about Ronny Coleman, she is, in my opinion, the most formidable "true" bodybuilder on the planet.She was much smaller this year than she was in 2004. The great symmetry and muscular detail was still there. Gina brings a different look and her own unique set of strengths to the pro stage.

[FGPhotography]

Here ya go...

Hey Tre,
That woman is not Davana, but Olga, Chris Cormier's friend's wife. I though so too at first, but was introduced to her later.

[Tre]

Hey Tre,
That woman is not Davana, but Olga, Chris Cormier's friend's wife. I though so too at first, but was introduced to her later.
Oh, thanks for the correction. I hope the record is set straight.

That begs the question, though: Why isn't the Figure Olympia champion more recognizable to fans of the sport?

[Echo]

That's your interpretation, and I'm sure most people will agree that you're certainly welcome to your opinion.

Why thank you Tre for being so generous as to advise me that I am welcome to my opinion. You know, I just wasn't sure about that until you mentioned it.

Just as you do not have the right to silence Gina's remarks, neither do you have the right (nor ability) to determine what I will say in response to any event, judging decision, message board post, etc. Gina can - and has - spoken for herself. I have spoken for myself. If you think I'm in the market for 'brownie points', however, you obviously don't know me very well.

What a childish argument Tre. Maybe you should think about going to bed. Read what I said. I did not attempt to "silence Gina's remarks," I invited her remarks in order to give her, not you, the opportunity to clear up a statement that can be legitimately interpreted as insulting. Still, you can't seem to butt out and wait for Gina, herself, to read my posts and respond to them.

And as for "brownie points' who do you think you're fooling? Your stock in trade is to entreat these lovely ladies to agree to let you use them for your photographic artistry, which you parlay into a financial revenue stream. It is plain to see that you are still "working" to demonstrate your loyalty to Gina. Tre, baby, Gina doesn't need it, she is an excellant spokesperson for herself.


She [Iris] was much smaller this year than she was in 2004. The great symmetry and muscular detail was still there.

And why was that Tre? Because going into this contest Iris kept hearing the "buzz" that the judges were going to spank her at the Ms O. so she bought into this and detuned her physique. This allowed the judges enough latitude to award the title to Yaxeni.

Gina brings a different look and her own unique set of strengths to the pro stage.

Sorry Tre, this dog of an argument won't "hunt." Gina is way too smart to fall for that one. Gina's physical attributes have nothing to do with the issue. The point is, or was, that if Gina was to actually line up next to Iris, especially when Iris brings her "A-Game," Gina would have a far greater appreciation for Iris than she has expressed thus far.

Now, pretty please, with sugar on top, let Big G speak for herself, if she so chooses.

[Harry The Hat]

I’m not sure I buy the ‘they got Iris to take the conditioning down a notch and then penalized her for it’ argument. Having seen a good few shots from the Ms O at this stage, Yaxeni did much the much the same thing. If the argument were to hold true, then surely both Iris and Yaxeni would have suffered. They came first and second.

The deciding factor – and this was no great secret – was aesthetics. Call it ‘shape’, ‘lines’ ‘flow’ or ‘structure’, everyone always knew that criterion would be the one that mattered, the one that informed everything else. At the end of the day, Yaxeni’s lines were better. It wasn’t a throwback to a smaller, earlier age in the sport (which perhaps a Jitka win may have announced) but a reintroduction of an aesthetic sensibility to the female physique.

Nobody’s dogging on Iris because she’s a bad bodybuilder or an undeserving Ms O. It’s just that her physique represents a triumph of size and conditioning over shape. Under the old criteria, the only woman who could beat Iris would have been someone who came in bigger and harder. Conditioning and size still matter – Yaxeni is hardly lacking in either – but they’re not the guiding principles any more.

The most interesting thing for me is the reaction of the other FBBs themselves. Most everyone who has spoken is pleased with Yaxeni’s win. It signals that the female physique should be judiciously sculpted, rather than developing all body parts exponentially. And it seems that is what the overwhelming majority of athletes themselves would want.

[CalJoe]

Hey there "pussycat"!

Well, if you had done your homework on me, you would know that I just turned professional late last year and have since then had surgery on a bicep tear which has prevented me from stepping on that pro stage to "compete beside" these ladies. And trust me when I tell you this: WHAT I SAID IS WHAT I MEAN. I do not mix words and DO NOT lack the power of my convictions. I did not "disrespect" them with my thoughts and feel that they certainly deserve to be among the "best in the world today"...I just feel that Yaxeni is THE best in the world today and was simply stating that. I have my reasons for feeling this way which was implied through my thoughts of "disappointment" and "indifference" if either Iris or Dayana won. It's too bad that you felt that I was disrespecting these two ladies--I was NOT. I was expressing how I felt during that moment and how I felt the outcome of this show would affect ME personally as well as a whole host of my fellow fbbers that feel the same way I do. (I know this because we have a nice "network" of ladies that keep in touch behind the scenes). I appreciate your attempt in trying to take me to task on my personal statements...it has simply not changed a thing---but the effort was duly noted. :rolleyes:

Have a nice day kitty,
G
Gina,

With all due respect, are you saying that you're interested in the outcome of the O., because of how it affects you rather than what should be the objective outcome of the decision? Isn't that rather self-serving? If so, then it's what I suspected. Deep down you must feel that you can attain Yaxeni's physique, which coincidentally resembles yours, as opposed to Iris'. Let's face it, you would probably would never be able to attain Iris' symmetrical proportions and level of conditioning therefore you feel her look is not good for the sport. Is that what you're saying? If so, then I must admit that I'm disspointed in that. Rather than being objective you prefer to be highly subjective based on whether the outcome is good for you. That would be like a new turned men's pro saying "Gee, I'll really be dissapointed if Flex Wheeler or Ronnie Coleman win. I'll be so happy if Bob Cicherillo wins, because I know I can't look like Wheeler or Coleman, but I think I can look like Cicherillo." How does that sound to you? And mind you, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, and as a matter of fact I like you, and I think you're pretty cool, but your admission disturbs me with regard to what I feel is a massive lack of objectivity on your part.

[CalJoe]

I’m not sure I buy the ‘they got Iris to take the conditioning down a notch and then penalized her for it’ argument. Having seen a good few shots from the Ms O at this stage, Yaxeni did much the much the same thing. If the argument were to hold true, then surely both Iris and Yaxeni would have suffered. They came first and second.

The deciding factor – and this was no great secret – was aesthetics. Call it ‘shape’, ‘lines’ ‘flow’ or ‘structure’, everyone always knew that criterion would be the one that mattered, the one that informed everything else. At the end of the day, Yaxeni’s lines were better. It wasn’t a throwback to a smaller, earlier age in the sport (which perhaps a Jitka win may have announced) but a reintroduction of an aesthetic sensibility to the female physique.

Nobody’s dogging on Iris because she’s a bad bodybuilder or an undeserving Ms O. It’s just that her physique represents a triumph of size and conditioning over shape. Under the old criteria, the only woman who could beat Iris would have been someone who came in bigger and harder. Conditioning and size still matter – Yaxeni is hardly lacking in either – but they’re not the guiding principles any more.

The most interesting thing for me is the reaction of the other FBBs themselves. Most everyone who has spoken is pleased with Yaxeni’s win. It signals that the female physique should be judiciously sculpted, rather than developing all body parts exponentially. And it seems that is what the overwhelming majority of athletes themselves would want.
You my friend are very obviously a novice when it comes to this. You can come in here and tell me any number of reasons why you think Yaxeni beat Iris, but you are way off the mark saying that Yaxeni has better structure and symmetrical lines over Iris. That is the very LEAST of all the possibilities. You must have some good drugs under that hat of yours.

[Tre]

I invited her remarks in order to give her, not you, the opportunity to clear up a statement that can be legitimately interpreted as insulting. Still, you can't seem to butt out and wait for Gina, herself, to read my posts and respond to them. Why do you feel you have the ability to determine what another might perceive as 'insulting'? A person can only be insulted if he allows himself to be. If you're going to be insulted on behalf of someone else, that's your business, but at that point, I'm more than welcome to 'butt in'.

You posted your remarks on a public message board. You don't get to determine who responds and who remains silent.
Your stock in trade is to entreat these lovely ladies to agree to let you use them for your photographic artistry, which you parlay into a financial revenue stream. It is plain to see that you are still "working" to demonstrate your loyalty to Gina. Tre, baby, Gina doesn't need it, she is an excellant spokesperson for herself.Yeah, right. I've made more critical statements of female bodybuilders (individually and collectively) than anyone on this board. Given that fact, your argument fails.
And why was that Tre? Because going into this contest Iris kept hearing the "buzz" that the judges were going to spank her at the Ms O. so she bought into this and detuned her physique. This allowed the judges enough latitude to award the title to Yaxeni.I'm not in a position to tell you why Iris was smaller. I've never interviewed her and have only met her once, very briefly a few years ago. I'm not going to pretend to know what was in her mind over the past year as she prepared to defend her title.
Sorry Tre, this dog of an argument won't "hunt." Gina is way too smart to fall for that one. Gina's physical attributes have nothing to do with the issue. The point is, or was, that if Gina was to actually line up next to Iris, especially when Iris brings her "A-Game," Gina would have a far greater appreciation for Iris than she has expressed thus far.

Now, pretty please, with sugar on top, let Big G speak for herself, if she so chooses.You're an Iris fan, we get it. Gina's got her fans, too, ya know. It's great that you're eager to impress the readers with your wordsmithery, but as I said before, you're posting on a public message board. When you do that, you're inviting public comment on what YOU have written, whether that was your intent or not.

Your own arrogance is the only possible explanation for why you feel Gina has to show "appreciation" for Iris in the way YOU want her to show it. As intelligent as you are, it does make me wonder why you don't see why your position is so laughable.

[Maxt]

Tre

There would have been *exactly* enough high placings to go around if there were 3 classes.

My subjective opinion is my subjective opinion. Likewise for you, and for the judges. Unlike some, I am willing to explain and defend my opinions.

I admit to being a long-term fan of Annie and Yaxeni, as well as Rosemary, (also Heather Foster, who wasn't competing). But one objective fact is the number and intensity of spontaneous outbreaks of applause during Annie's routine. Another is the audience reaction to Yaxeni, who was clearly the people's choice.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Marja. When I say she is symmetrical, I mean that her huge triceps balance her jaw-dropping biceps, her awesome legs balance her spectacular arms, her upper torso has a good (though not great) V-shape, her abs are well defined. Her arms and legs aren't only huge, but are well shaped, flowing from end to end. Also, in non-athletic, "package" qualities, her skin is good and her face is very pretty, and her hips are curvier than some women who get points for femininity. Mark000 your opinion carries equal weight to everybody else's please give me your placings first to last if you could? Tre could you do that also? I'd appreciate it, guys?

[CalJoe]

Why do you feel you have the ability to determine what another might perceive as 'insulting'? A person can only be insulted if he allows himself to be. If you're going to be insulted on behalf of someone else, that's your business, but at that point, I'm more than welcome to 'butt in'.

You posted your remarks on a public message board. You don't get to determine who responds and who remains silent.
Yeah, right. I've made more critical statements of female bodybuilders (individually and collectively) than anyone on this board. Given that fact, your argument fails.
I'm not in a position to tell you why Iris was smaller. I've never interviewed her and have only met her once, very briefly a few years ago. I'm not going to pretend to know what was in her mind over the past year as she prepared to defend her title.
You're an Iris fan, we get it. Gina's got her fans, too, ya know. It's great that you're eager to impress the readers with your wordsmithery, but as I said before, you're posting on a public message board. When you do that, you're inviting public comment on what YOU have written, whether that was your intent or not.

Your own arrogance is the only possible explanation for why you feel Gina has to show "appreciation" for Iris in the way YOU want her to show it. As intelligent as you are, it does make me wonder why you don't see why your position is so laughable.
Tre', Both you and Echo make good arguments, and it's a little silly to point of finger at each other's arguments and say that it's laughable. You both make very good points.

[Gina Davis]

Ahhh Echo...I will not quote you, my dear, because you have so much to say! lol! I will try to hit the points which seem to be concerning you:

First and foremost, I find Iris to be quite the specimen in our world and will undoubtedly be in shock (not awe) of her physique when I stand next to it someday. I experience awe when I observe something that I find amazing, beautiful, and something I would hope to achieve one day in terms of my physique. Iris does not inspire this emotion in me. Once again, I am NOT disprespecting her at all--this is MY preference in how I view an elite fbber should look.

When I said "Yaxeni won for all of us" I was talking about the FUTURE of fbbing. Let's put it this way, as pro fbbers, obviously we look to the reigning Ms O as our template of what the judges find to be THE look we need to possibly be in her position one day. Between Iris and Yaxeni, which of these two looks do you think the majority of us can relate to and possibly attain? Which of these two would we want to look like? I can assure you the overwhelming winner is Yaxeni. With her win, it kept our passion alive and our enthusiasm that one day we could be in her shoes. If Iris would've won, there certainly would be a feeling of "not going to ever look like her, so why bother?"

I hope I cleared things up for you and certainly was not trying to be insulting with my remarks. I have always been cognizant of how I speak about my fellow fbbers and expect the same in return.

G

[Maxt]

Lovely Gina: Yaxeni is certainly a bodybuilder who I admire as well as you do. She certainly has worked very hard over a long period of time, but I would respectfully tell you this: Iris also won for all FBB's, Echo I have to agree with Gina. I don't think Iris won for all FBB's because I don't think all FBB's want to go to the extreme lengths Iris did and consequently sacrifice their aesthetic principles, self esteem and possibly even their health? Iris' Ms. Olympia win last year put a lot of people up for an examination on how the sport could go and where people did not want the sport going to. I think the end result could be something positive like a win at the Ms. Olympia for Yaxeni Oriquen?

[Gina Davis]

CalJoe,

Refer to my message to Echo...sorry to disappoint you buddy!
G

[CalJoe]

Ahhh Echo...I will not quote you, my dear, because you have so much to say! lol! I will try to hit the points which seem to be concerning you:

First and foremost, I find Iris to be quite the specimen in our world and will undoubtedly be in shock (not awe) of her physique when I stand next to it someday. I experience awe when I observe something that I find amazing, beautiful, and something I would hope to achieve one day in terms of my physique. Iris does not inspire this emotion in me. Once again, I am NOT disprespecting her at all--this is MY preference in how I view an elite fbber should look.

When I said "Yaxeni won for all of us" I was talking about the FUTURE of fbbing. Let's put it this way, as pro fbbers, obviously we look to the reigning Ms O as our template of what the judges find to be THE look we need to possibly be in her position one day. Between Iris and Yaxeni, which of these two looks do you think the majority of us can relate to and possibly attain? Which of these two would we want to look like? I can assure you the overwhelming winner is Yaxeni. With her win, it kept our passion alive and our enthusiasm that one day we could be in her shoes. If Iris would've won, there certainly would be a feeling of "not going to ever look like her, so why bother?"

I hope I cleared things up for you and certainly was not trying to be insulting with my remarks. I have always been cognizant of how I speak about my fellow fbbers and expect the same in return.

G
Gina,

How did you feel about Lenda when she was the Ms. O.? Were you shocked or inspired by her? Did Lenda inspire you, despite the fact that there is no diet, no training regiment, and no syringe available that can produce her genetically symmetrical lines? Would you like to look like Lenda for the purposes of bodybuilding?

[Maxt]

Gina can't look like Lenda Murray. Lenda Murray can't look like Gina. She can look like the best she can be and she will.

[Tre]

Tre', Both you and Echo make good arguments, and it's a little silly to point of finger at each other's arguments and say that it's laughable. You both make very good points.

You know it's scary when Joe is the peacemaker. :D

[CalJoe]

Gina can't look like Lenda Murray. Lenda Murray can't look like Gina. She can look like the best she can be and she will.
Are you saying they're equal with regard to bodybuilding criteria?

[Gina Davis]

Gina,

How did you feel about Lenda when she was the Ms. O.? Were you shocked or inspired by her? Did Lenda inspire you, despite the fact that there is no diet, no training regiment, and no syringe available that can produce her genetically symmetrical lines? Would you like to look like Lenda for the purposes of bodybuilding?

I would say both shocked and inspired. She was able to achieve that balance for me even though her development and lines are right there with Iris. Joe, one can be inspired without thinking they can produce the EXACT same look as the person they are viewing, come on now. As far as wanting to "look like" someone in our industry for the purposes of bodybuilding, I want to look like ME only better.
G

[CalJoe]

Echo I have to agree with Gina. I don't think Iris won for all FBB's because I don't think all FBB's want to go to the extreme lengths Iris did and consequently sacrifice their aesthetic principles, self esteem and possibly even their health? Iris' Ms. Olympia win last year put a lot of people up for an examination on how the sport could go and where people did not want the sport going to. I think the end result could be something positive like a win at the Ms. Olympia for Yaxeni Oriquen?
Maxt agreeing with Gina? No way! Who are you to say who Iris wins for or who she doesn't win for. You presumptuous prick. How do you know the state of Iris' health? I don't recall her tearing her biceps tendon like Gina did. Her self-esteem? How do you know these things about people you don't even know? You are a jackass of the highest order.

[Gina Davis]

Maxt agreeing with Gina? No way! Who are you to say who Iris wins for or who she doesn't win for. You presumptuous prick. How do you know the state of Iris' health? I don't recall her tearing her biceps tendon like Gina did. Her self-esteem? How do you know these things about people you don't even know? You are a jackass of the highest order.

Whoa, whoa, whoooaa there Joe... what does tearing my bicep have to do with overall health?
G

[CalJoe]

I would say both shocked and inspired. She was able to achieve that balance for me even though her development and lines are right there with Iris. Joe, one can be inspired without thinking they can produce the EXACT same look as the person they are viewing, come on now. As far as wanting to "look like" someone in our industry for the purposes of bodybuilding, I want to look like ME only better.
G
Lenda's lines and symmetrical proportions are right there with Iris. Thanks for clearing that up. So if you didn't have a problem with Lenda winning, but you had a problem with Iris winning, and it's not the physiques, because you just said they are right with each other, then it has to be the face right? It can't be Iris' conditioning, because in 2002, 2003, and 2004 Lenda was every bit as hard as Iris was. So, it's Iris facial features right?

[CalJoe]

Whoa, whoa, whoooaa there Joe... what does tearing my bicep have to do with overall health?
G
Come on Gina. Maxt is making it sound like Iris is unhealthy, meanwhile she hasn't gotten injured like you have. What causes 98% of the injuries in bodybuilders?

[Gina Davis]

Lenda's lines and symmetrical proportions are right there with Iris. Thanks for clearing that up. So if you didn't have a problem with Lenda winning, but you had a problem with Iris winning, and it's not the physiques, because you just said they are right with each other, then it has to be the face right? It can't be Iris' conditioning, because in 2002, 2003, and 2004 Lenda was every bit as hard as Iris was. So, it's Iris facial features right?

Although they were very similar in terms of physiques, they were not exact. It was an overall BALANCE that does not exclude the hair/face/makeup/skintone that I found in Lenda that I do not in Iris. I don't know how else to get you to understand, so I will stop there.
G

[Maxt]

Iris Kyle didn't have the symmetry that Yaxeni Oriquen had in this last Ms. Olympia. That is important and isn't going to be ignored by judges.

[Maxt]

Maxt agreeing with Gina? No way! Why wouldn't I agree with Gina? She is a pro bodybuilder who has a tremendous accomplishment in a short time and I learn a lot reading her comments here and on other websites.

[CalJoe]

Although they were very similar in terms of physiques, they were not exact. It was an overall BALANCE that does not exclude the hair/face/makeup/skintone that I found in Lenda that I do not in Iris. I don't know how else to get you to understand, so I will stop there.
G
Thanks for verifying the face issue.

[CalJoe]

Iris Kyle didn't have the symmetry.
Maxt, you will henceforth be ignored, since obviously you're a dick.

[Gina Davis]

Come on Gina. Maxt is making it sound like Iris is unhealthy, meanwhile she hasn't gotten injured like you have. What causes 98% of the injuries in bodybuilders?

There are times when I view your posts and think, "man, this guy is on the ball" and then there are times when I think you have lost your mind...THIS is one of those times. Overall health isn't limited to a LIMB Joe!!! After 15 years of training like I do, something was bound to get injured. There are a whole host of tests that one can take to determine "health" including blood panels, stress tests, gynecological, etc... and I can assure you I am very, very healthy. I will not argue Maxt's stance on why he may think Iris is unhealthy, but will certainly stand up for myself when you throw me into the mix.
G

[Maxt]

Well Cal Joe, since all you can do is name call and make lousy arguments, you should realize that you have cried sour grapes about shows the last five months and you are not getting me to sympathize. Instead of saying who you thought should have won the Ms. Olympia first to last in the order you'd have chosen and why, you have made really off base comments that are constantly at odds with judges, fans, competitors and marketability factors. You even called Yaxeni Oriquen a repulsive freak. I think it is about time you used some common sense-took a look at things in the perspective of the big picture and try and understand the way things are more than always telling.

[h66666]

I think Iris was basically cheated out of her title. She was told to downsize by 20%, which she did. Thus she lost to someone who didn't.

I'm 100% with CalJoe on this.

If this is bodybuilding, then the physique with the biggest size, best shape, symmetry and conditioning must win.

I think there has never been a better female bodybuilder than the 2004 MsO version of Iris. She was like Lenda Murray, except that she had much better calves, better conditioning, and an unparallelled polish. Even her muscle fibers had/have beautiful shapes.

The only thing against her is that she's apparently not considered as pretty as Lenda. Kim Chizevsky had the same problem, and she was forced out of the Olympia by similarly nasty means. (She left when prize money was reduced by 60% or so.)

Gina, you happen to have a physique that speaks for itself, and this is why I don't complain about your success. Unfortunately, your success is in large part due to your sex appeal, which should, very simply, not be a factor at all.

That is, as long as we want to call this bodybuilding, and not a beauty pageant.

I'm happy for Yaxeni, she's an excellent bodybuilder, and she's so nice. But the best female bodybuilder ever, and one of the best bodybuilders (male or female) in the world, is still Iris Kyle. She has no weak points. All her body parts are in the top three in the world. Her conditioning is unbelievable. Her V taper, symmetry and proportions are untouchable. She's no more "extreme" than Lenda was or Yaxeni is: she's got better genetics for getting ripped (oh, and she has these things called "calves," too, something that other Ms O champions lack a bit).

And by the way, just to put things a bit into perspective, Iris is concerned about femininity, proportions and shape. She isn't Bev Francis who sacrificed her shape and proportions in order to get as big as humanly possible. Iris refuses to hit most-muscular poses, as she deems them unfeminine. She drew a line somewhere; she has been working on creating her version of the ideal female physique; she has been careful not to throw her body out of proportion, or to become an unsightly mass monster.

If you're a man dismissing Iris because she isn't pretty enough, you're sexist. And if you're a woman bodybuilder with a pretty face doing the same, then really, where do you stand on the issue of equal treatment? Should female runners also be judged on their facial beauty?

It's just counterproductive to place artificial boundaries on an athlete's performance. How can a bodybuilder prepare for a contest when she knows that she needs to be big, but not too big; conditioned, but not too well-conditioned? Who will be the winner? The biggest and best-conditioned athlete, provided she isn't too big and too well-conditioned? Who draws the line? And on what grounds?

Isn't it a bit like determining that running a 100-yard dash for a woman in 12 seconds would be way "too fast for a woman," so anyone faster than that would place lower? Or better still, why even disclose the 12-second figure? Let's just say that a female runner needs to run fast, but not too fast, okay? And let the athletes wonder how fast they need to be.

Oh, I get it, it's about marketability. But then here's some news: female bodybuilding is not going to be mainstream anyway. Male bodybuilding is hardly mainstream. Female fitness is hardly mainstream. A figure contestant is considered too muscular to be mainstream. So what is the IFBB going to achieve by putting artificial constraints on athletes' physiques? The sport will lose fan appeal, while still not getting mainstream appeal. So the small number of supporters will dwindle.

This may be speculation. But what has been achieved so far?

Let's see. There's confusion among athletes. Do they need to be big? After all, Yaxeni was the biggest. Should they apply the 20% rule? After all, the reigning champion did, and lost. Will Yaxeni lose if she gets even more ripped? Would Iris have won if she had been like in 2004?

And there's reduced performance. Yes, the athletic performance of a bodybuilder is her muscularity. And Iris displayed less of it than she would have otherwise. Thus, hardcore fans got less muscle. They were deprived of seeing what could have been the best female bodybuilder ever, even topping her 2004 version.

An Iris Kyle fan will be looking at her 2004 or 2003 photos, not her 2005 ones. And most Iris Kyle fans will wonder what package she would have displayed if she had worked on adding muscle instead of losing it. Darn it, this is bodybuilding. And I'm saddened that a Ms Olympia champ was insidiously tricked into becoming less than the bodybuilder she could have been, and then even punished for that. To me, this is a sad day. As a hardcore bodybuilding fan, I'm very disappointed at the IFBB. Now, good luck in the wide public ever embracing Yaxeni. If Paris Hilton won the Ms Olympia, the sport would surely go mainstream. But Yaxeni? For the mainstream public, Iris Kyle, Gina Davis, Yaxeni Oriquen, Bev Francis or Renee Toney are all the same. They're all gross. The wide public isn't what bodybuilding should shoot for.

[Maxt]

I think Iris was basically cheated out of her title. She was told to downsize by 20%, which she did. Thus she lost to someone who didn't.

If this is bodybuilding, then the physique with the biggest size, best shape, symmetry and conditioning must win.


This is women's bodybuilding. Iris Kyle wasn't cheated out of the Ms. Olympia title. She lost it to a great competitor who has stuck with it over the years and finally came up with the big win. So I give Yaxeni Oriquen her congratulations for winning the Ms. Olympia. She deserved it.

[Echo]

Let's put it this way, as pro fbbers, obviously we look to the reigning Ms O as our template of what the judges find to be THE look we need to possibly be in her position one day. Between Iris and Yaxeni, which of these two looks do you think the majority of us can relate to and possibly attain? Which of these two would we want to look like? I can assure you the overwhelming winner is Yaxeni. With her win, it kept our passion alive and our enthusiasm that one day we could be in her shoes. If Iris would've won, there certainly would be a feeling of "not going to ever look like her, so why bother?"
G


Gina: I am not making this post to provoke an argument with you, but rather to provoke some thought. Consider the question: Could the same argument you made apply to Ronnie Coleman on the Men's side? When sexiness or physical attractiveness become the operative factor in determining the outcome of a contest, does the contest cease to be a "sport?"

Please ponder these question and share with us your thoughts.

Thank you most sincerely.

[Tre]

...does the contest cease to be a "sport?"
Uh, that happened a long time ago.

[Maxt]

Gina: I am not making this post to provoke an argument with you, but rather to provoke some thought. Consider the question: Could the same argument you made apply to Ronnie Coleman on the Men's side? When sexiness or physical attractiveness become the operative factor in determining the outcome of a contest, does the contest cease to be a "sport?"
I love those posts that start out by saying "I am not making this post to provoke an argument with you" and than attempt to provoke an argument under the guise that it is all in the name of "thought." Some of you guys are picking on Gina. She said how she thinks. She thinks as a woman. She thinks as an IFBB Pro bodybuilder. She thinks as a completely level-headed person. I don't think you can change how she thinks by methods or strategies of provocation so just be glad she tells it like it is. She definitely brings it.

[Echo]

She said how she thinks. She thinks as a woman. She thinks as an IFBB Pro bodybuilder. She thinks as a completely level-headed person. I don't think you can change how she thinks .....


The above is an example of a disingenuous male argument. Encourage a lady to express her thoughts, and then butt in to proclaim knowledge of how or what she is thinking before she has a chance to reply. What a gentleman you really are!

[Maxt]

That is what I read. I don't think she agrees with you. She may be back soon, but I read that she did not want to say anything more. Didn't you read that?

[Maxt]

Although they were very similar in terms of physiques, they were not I don't know how else to get you to understand, so I will stop there.
G
That was it. She stopped.

[James]

Against my better judgement, I will step into this discussion to say that I feel that the face should be factored into the decision of who wears the Ms. Olympia crown. It should be an equal balance and Yaxeni is a pretty good balance Toni Norman and Iris Kyle.

IMO, Ms. Olympia is a representative of Womens bodybuilding who should motivate and inspire women to live a healthy lifestyle.

We are in such a crisis in this country as Americans are fatter and more obese than ever. We are surrounded by junk food, computers, TIVO and netflix (where you dont even leave the house to rent a movie!) And our children are at the greatest risk.

What is wrong with having a beautiful representative for a healthy lifestyle? Marketabilaty is important in selling Ms. Olympia to the public and the fans. And besides, Ronnie Coleman is not a bad looking guy either.

To some degree, the Olympia is more like the Academy Awards.

[Maxt]

Yessss. Yaxeni. Yaxeni. Yaxeni, She's more marketable to mainstream America than Iris Kyle. You have to understand Iris fans that Iris did pretty well but there is a new Ms. Olympia: Yaxeni Oriquen, OK? She's a very delightful and wonderful person. It's all relative, you know?

[00tree]

Wow, I was going to enter into the discution but will just make this one post and that will be it. I for one was very pleased with the placings of the 2005 Miss O. Yaxeni has always been one of my favorite Physique modles (I have baised a few art pieces on her, I love to draw) Her physique flows beautifully and all her muscle seems to only enhance her femaninity.
That is the only coment I shall make about any athlete on this thread do to the hostility of some of the other members. It has kind of turned into a name calling contest and i was very suprised by that. I was hoping for a good descusion about the quality athletes of the contest who are All WINNERS if they even make it to the Olympia. all of them should be selebrated. Anybody with the dedication to even train for a bodybuilding contest has my utmost respect.
That's my opinion. Everyone is entitled to one and they don't all have to be the same that's what makes your opion yours and not someone else's. I can understand pointing out a difference in opinion but the name calling is a bit extreme.

[CalJoe]

Well Cal Joe, since all you can do is name call and make lousy arguments, you should realize that you have cried sour grapes about shows the last five months and you are not getting me to sympathize. Instead of saying who you thought should have won the Ms. Olympia first to last in the order you'd have chosen and why, you have made really off base comments that are constantly at odds with judges, fans, competitors and marketability factors. You even called Yaxeni Oriquen a repulsive freak. I think it is about time you used some common sense-took a look at things in the perspective of the big picture and try and understand the way things are more than always telling.
I'm beginning to think that you're mentally impaired or that you like to twist things that other people say. I did not call Yaxeni a repulsive freak. If you read my post you will notice that I said "the mainstream American public would consider Yaxeni a repulsive freak." I mentioned this in response to a post someone made about how Yaxeni could appear on the Jay Leno show as opposed to Iris Kyle. The mainstream public overwhelmingly responds with gawking, staring, and downright rudeness when they see women bodybuilders, and even more so when they are as big as Yaxeni. I have mentioned exhaustively the fact that I am happy Yaxeni won, and that I have spoken to her countless times at shows. To twist my words around indicates to me either one of 2 things; 1) You're too stupid to understand what I write or 2) You know perfectly well what I write, but chose instead to twist it around, which would undeniably make you a jackass, which is what I've called you already.

I have indicated who I would have chosen for the top 3 and why I feel that way, but obviously you either never bothered to read it, or it has escaped your memory. Those of you that know me know how I feel about the so called "marketability factor". I'm still waiting for the geniuses at the IFBB to come out with the marketing scheme from the 1992 Ms. International, and from the 2000 USA.

[CalJoe]

There are times when I view your posts and think, "man, this guy is on the ball" and then there are times when I think you have lost your mind...THIS is one of those times. Overall health isn't limited to a LIMB Joe!!! After 15 years of training like I do, something was bound to get injured. There are a whole host of tests that one can take to determine "health" including blood panels, stress tests, gynecological, etc... and I can assure you I am very, very healthy. I will not argue Maxt's stance on why he may think Iris is unhealthy, but will certainly stand up for myself when you throw me into the mix.
G
I will preface my post by telling you that I will send you a private message upon completion of this post. First of all, I want to apologize for not making my point more clear, and leading you to believe that I was questioning your health. That is not the point I was trying to make. How could I know anything about your health. Maxt presumes to know something of Iris' health as well as her self-esteem. I am not making the same idiotic mistake with you. I just wish my post had been less ambivalent. I will make myself more clear in private.

[Nadia Nardi]

I attended the Ms Olympia pre-judging...it was awesome! Not only was this my first trip to Vegas, it was my first trip to the Olympia too. I had a great seat which was only a few rows from the stage.

After reading through this entire thread, I decided that I should add my 2 cents....

IMO, I think Yaxeni was VERY deserving of her win. From my seat, this is what I saw:

Yaxeni is blessed with very feminine shape and bone structure. She wasn't too hard either. Although similar in size to Betty P. and Annie, she has full, round muscle bellies that are very pleasing to look at. Although some seem to think that Iris was 'robbed', I beg to differ.... Iris is very long limbed. Her size and conditioning have always been her 'ace in the hole'. She did adhere to the 20% reduction is muscularity/conditioning, but it made her look smaller than usual and very stringy. By the start of the finals, Iris had filled out (softer and fuller) and looked 100% better...

Other noteworthy competitors were Dayana - she was in awesome condition. She wasn't too hard yet she was full and shapely. She had some stiff competition and deserved third place.

Jitka was a bit on the softer side, but she has nice lines. She definitely had the best overall shape from the front (great delts, tiny waist, flaring quads). Unfortunately, her conditioning from the back side didn't match that of the front which obviously hurt her placing.

Brenda has decent shape, but she has a compact physique that doesn't quite compare with that of top three. Her conditioning was slightly off.

The debate over who SHOULD have won the Olympia is a matter of personal preference...we all have favorites, but some fans seem to lack the objectivity to decifer between who is deserving of the win on that day.

[genex]

Thanks for the input Nadia! Always good to hear from athletes who were there and top amateurs like yourself :)

[CalJoe]

I attended the Ms Olympia pre-judging...it was awesome! Not only was this my first trip to Vegas, it was my first trip to the Olympia too. I had a great seat which was only a few rows from the stage.

After reading through this entire thread, I decided that I should add my 2 cents....

IMO, I think Yaxeni was VERY deserving of her win. From my seat, this is what I saw:

Yaxeni is blessed with very feminine shape and bone structure. She wasn't too hard either. Although similar in size to Betty P. and Annie, she has full, round muscle bellies that are very pleasing to look at. Although some seem to think that Iris was 'robbed', I beg to differ.... Iris is very long limbed. Her size and conditioning have always been her 'ace in the hole'. She did adhere to the 20% reduction is muscularity/conditioning, but it made her look smaller than usual and very stringy. By the start of the finals, Iris had filled out (softer and fuller) and looked 100% better...

Other noteworthy competitors were Dayana - she was in awesome condition. She wasn't too hard yet she was full and shapely. She had some stiff competition and deserved third place.

Jitka was a bit on the softer side, but she has nice lines. She definitely had the best overall shape from the front (great delts, tiny waist, flaring quads). Unfortunately, her conditioning from the back side didn't match that of the front which obviously hurt her placing.

Brenda has decent shape, but she has a compact physique that doesn't quite compare with that of top three. Her conditioning was slightly off.

The debate over who SHOULD have won the Olympia is a matter of personal preference...we all have favorites, but some fans seem to lack the objectivity to decifer between who is deserving of the win on that day.
I don't necessarily think Iris was robbed. I just think she deserved to win. There are a lot of people in here that are objective and others that are not. That's why it's so interesting to read what people have to say about these shows. The world would suck if everyone agreed about everything. Iris followed the 20% less mandate, and it's being held against her. Had she not complied and come in like she did last year, she would have been taken to task for being too big and hard It presents quite a predicament if you're Iris; damned if you do, damned if you don't. I'm glad you enjoyed the show Nadia. :)

[Deathpod]

Something about all of this just reminds me of the music world. Obviously I'm going to relate to that, being a musician. Whenever there's debate over a competition, I think about the dreaded "Battle Of The Bands."

Taking bands and pitting them against one another, declaring a "winner" at the end. I used to be in a lot of them. There was always this air of resentment and sometimes jealousy. It was tough. It was subjective. A judge will tell you something in the semi-finals only to tell you the opposite in the finals. And worst of all, I didn't feel like I was really able to meet anyone, or make any connections, because everyone was too wrapped up in the competition aspect.

Sure, declaring a winner is exciting. That's what awards shows are for. I agree with James in the Academy Awards' comparison. I shouldn't be competing against other bands, I should be joining with them in solidarity, fighting for our cause.

Like music, it seems to me that bodybuilding is much more about the ART of muscle rather than the SPORT. Someone stands on a stage in various poses, and a panel decides if it's what they like. It's a package deal. When I play a show, people in the audience listen to the music, look at the band, and decide if they like it. Nobody cares if I can play faster than the next guy, unless they're a music nerd or caught up in competition.

Beauty is a subjective topic, of course, like music. I find muscular women attractive. I also like jazz, country, death metal and the Everly Brothers. I know a lot of people who like skinny women, hate jazz, and like Good Charlotte. That doesn't make them wrong. It doesn't make me right.

Like I said, more like art, less like sport. Obviously there is an enormous athletic effort involved with this sport. But were that the only factor, then fbb contests would be more like the strength extravaganzas. That, to me, would draw a better line between 100m dash and bodybuilding.

20% is a strange thing. (again with the music) It's like telling a band "come back 20% less hard next year." If that's part of the criteria, then you'll have less "hard" in the lineups.

I'll leave off with this. Women's bodybuilding combines a wide variety of factors: part beauty pageant, part dance show, part rock concert. It's not for everyone. Seeing such heated debate is simultaneously reassuring and alarming, because it shows that people are very passionate, but mayhaps need to be more compassionate.

I'm goin' on break.

[mark000]

CalJoe: There are a lot of people in here that are objective and others that are not.

No human being is objective. Some people are more knowledgeable than others; some people make an effort to be fair and some just indulge their prejudices, but objectivity is an unattainable ideal.

[Tre]

... but objectivity is an unattainable ideal.

That only a few of us have :p

[CalJoe]

No human being is objective. Some people are more knowledgeable than others; some people make an effort to be fair and some just indulge their prejudices, but objectivity is an unattainable ideal.
All I can say is that I disagree.

[Amanda Dunbar]

Joe, you've gotta be kidding.... just be done w/ it why even bother responding at this point?? LOL

Amanda

[cbdetroit]

hey all,

here are some pix. Some quick notes/obsevations:

1.) The expo is very nice and roomy. Tons of great women in the croud and have been seeing lots of friends and made some new ones also.

2.) How the Ms Olympia prejudjing was handled was the worst I have ever seen. They held everyone back and let the VIP's enter first. Basically this allowed the first 20 rows to dissapear. I had a general admission wristband and we had to wait until 5 minutes before the show started before they let us in. So I could only get a seat way in the back and I could only move up until later in the prejudging (the following pix are from when I could move up) So basically, if you wanted a good seat, you had to be a VIP AND get there early.

3.) All the competitors were big and shredded. There was no sign of a 20 percent rule. I felt the callouts were the 'Usual Suspects" so to speak and they were just NOT going to look at anyone else.

So here are the first callouts: Yaxeni, Dayana, Iris.On another thread I predicted that Yaxeni would win it providing that if she comes in with the same balance of Muscularity & Detailed Conditioning that she had at the 2002-03 & 2005 Ms. International as well as the 2002 & 2004 GNC Show of Strength then she would do very well at this contest. Don't get me wrong Iris, looks good but Yaxeni was right on the money this time! So far I'm satisfied with the results as well as fellow Midwesterner Jennifer Hendershott winning the overall Fitness Olympia crown.

So far 2005 have been a great year for Women's Bodybuilding & Fitness in both the Amatuers and the Pros. I can't wait to see how the NPC Nationals as well as Women's Bodybuilding & Fitness will be like heading into 2006 The Feminine Bodybuilders are back for sure and you can quote me on that. Congratulations to both Yaxeni Oriquen and Jennifer Hendershott on their victories and many more to come in the future.

Christopher Brown
cbdetroit

[cbdetroit]

On another historical note, Yaxeni Oriquen is the first Woman of Hispanic Heritage to have won the title of Ms. Olympia as well as the 3rd Woman (Kim Chizvesky & Iris Kyle are the others) to have won both the Ms. International and Ms. Olympia titles in the same year which is cool and I'm proud to be a Yaxeni Oriquen fan period. Like I said a big congratulations & mad loving & props to her and many more. The Yaxeni Oriquen era is going to a good one for sure!

Christopher Brown
cbdetroit

[cbdetroit]

I also have to give mad loving and props to Tonia Williams, Bonnie Priest, Brenda Raganot, Mah-Ann Mendoza, Betty Pariso, Tonie Norman & Marja Lehtonen for looking so good in the contest if this is good I can't wait to see what the 2006 version of the Ms. Olympia as well as the Fitness Olympia is going to bring. And on that note Female Bodybuilders & Fitness Women Rules Period!!!!!!

Christopher Brown
cbdetroit

[ibarramedia]

On another historical note, Yaxeni Oriquen is the first Woman of Hispanic Heritage to have won the title of Ms. Olympia as well as the 3rd Woman (Kim Chizvesky & Iris Kyle are the others) to have won both the Ms. International and Ms. Olympia titles in the same year which is cool and I'm proud to be a Yaxeni Oriquen fan period. Like I said a big congratulations & mad loving & props to her and many more. The Yaxeni Oriquen era is going to a good one for sure!

Christopher Brown
cbdetroit

The great Rachel Mclish has hispanic heritage. She is Tex-Mex. Texan -Mexican heritage. Like Trish Swander though Trish did not win the Olympia.

[ibarramedia]

If they had the Jan Tana this year, Yaxeni would have won it too. A trifecta that did not happen because there was no Jan Tana this year.

[cbdetroit]

The great Rachel Mclish has hispanic heritage. She is Tex-Mex. Texan -Mexican heritage. Like Trish Swander though Trish did not win the Olympia.Hey Ibarra, I didn't know that thanks for the 411 on Ms. Olympia Rachel McLish and NPC Bodybuilder Trish Swander. Both Women are Beautiful as well.

I guess you can say that Yaxeni would be the first Venesualen Women to have won both the Ms. International and Ms. Olympia in the same year and it's all good. A very Beautiful and Sexy Woman indeed.

Christopher Brown
cbdetroit

[cbdetroit]

If they had the Jan Tana this year, Yaxeni would have won it too. A trifecta that did not happen because there was no Jan Tana this year.Hopefully for next year the IFBB should bring back both the Jan Tana as well as the GNC Show Of Strength to go along with the Ms. International, The Night Of Champions/New York Pro Show, The Southwest USA Pro Cup/Europa Sports Show, The Charlotte Pro Show and the Ms. Olympia with a stipulation: No Figure at both the Jan Tana and the GNC Show Of Strength since both Women's Bodybuilding & Fitness did not have enough contests this year to qualify for the Ms. Olympia.

I don't give a dam what anyone else says, both Women Bodybuilders and Fitness Women need love too.

Just the facts.

Christopher Brown
cbdetroit

[ibarramedia]

Next year it may be Jitka Harazimova or Gina Davis or even Sarah Dunlap,Amanda Dunbar and Elena Sieple. Who knows.

[cbdetroit]

Hey there "pussycat"!

Well, if you had done your homework on me, you would know that I just turned professional late last year and have since then had surgery on a bicep tear which has prevented me from stepping on that pro stage to "compete beside" these ladies. And trust me when I tell you this: WHAT I SAID IS WHAT I MEAN. I do not mix words and DO NOT lack the power of my convictions. I did not "disrespect" them with my thoughts and feel that they certainly deserve to be among the "best in the world today"...I just feel that Yaxeni is THE best in the world today and was simply stating that. I have my reasons for feeling this way which was implied through my thoughts of "disappointment" and "indifference" if either Iris or Dayana won. It's too bad that you felt that I was disrespecting these two ladies--I was NOT. I was expressing how I felt during that moment and how I felt the outcome of this show would affect ME personally as well as a whole host of my fellow fbbers that feel the same way I do. (I know this because we have a nice "network" of ladies that keep in touch behind the scenes). I appreciate your attempt in trying to take me to task on my personal statements...it has simply not changed a thing---but the effort was duly noted. :rolleyes:

Have a nice day kitty,
G That's right Gina you tell it like it is! My hero!

Christopher Brown
cbdetroit

HELL YEAH I'M A YAXENI ORIQUEN FAN AND PROUD OF IT LONG LIVE THE 20% RULING!!!!

[cbdetroit]

Ahhh Echo...I will not quote you, my dear, because you have so much to say! lol! I will try to hit the points which seem to be concerning you:

First and foremost, I find Iris to be quite the specimen in our world and will undoubtedly be in shock (not awe) of her physique when I stand next to it someday. I experience awe when I observe something that I find amazing, beautiful, and something I would hope to achieve one day in terms of my physique. Iris does not inspire this emotion in me. Once again, I am NOT disprespecting her at all--this is MY preference in how I view an elite fbber should look.

When I said "Yaxeni won for all of us" I was talking about the FUTURE of fbbing. Let's put it this way, as pro fbbers, obviously we look to the reigning Ms O as our template of what the judges find to be THE look we need to possibly be in her position one day. Between Iris and Yaxeni, which of these two looks do you think the majority of us can relate to and possibly attain? Which of these two would we want to look like? I can assure you the overwhelming winner is Yaxeni. With her win, it kept our passion alive and our enthusiasm that one day we could be in her shoes. If Iris would've won, there certainly would be a feeling of "not going to ever look like her, so why bother?"

I hope I cleared things up for you and certainly was not trying to be insulting with my remarks. I have always been cognizant of how I speak about my fellow fbbers and expect the same in return.

GAgain Gina you're right on the money. Both Yaxeni & Iris's look will dictate on where Female Bodybuilding will be at over the next couple of years. I'm looking forward to seeing you becoming the next Ms. Olympia you definitely have gotten the Muscularity & Detailed Conditioning big time! I would love to see you on stage with Yaxeni Iris Betty Pariso & Bonnie Priest! You'll do excellent in my opinion! Long live the Symmetrical Feminine Proportionate Bodybuilders! And my compliments to your Trainer Gina.

Christopher Brown
cbdetroit
Body Tech Rules for sure!!!!

[cbdetroit]

Next year it may be Jitka Harazimova or Gina Davis or even Sarah Dunlap,Amanda Dunbar and Elena Sieple. Who knows.I'm definitely looking forward to it when it happens. It will be nice to have a variety of Ms. Olympias for a change as opposed to one person dominating the title. Variety is the spice of life, but then again I'm looking forward to the Yaxeni Oriquen era of Ms. Olympia. Who knows maybe even Kim Chizvesky could come back and do very well since the Ms. O is back to one class again.

What do you think Gina, Maxt, Ibarra, James, & Gene? Give me a holler!

Christopher Brown
cbdetroit

[muscleflexin]

1- Yaxeni Oriquen* :D
2- Iris Kyle* :confused:
3- Dayana Cadeau*
4- Jitka Harazimova*
5- Brenda Raganot*
6- Bonnie Priest
7- Betty Viana
8- Betty Pariso :eek:
9- Rosemary Jennings
10-Toni Norman
11-Mah-Ann Mendoza
12-Tonia Williams
13-Annie Rivieccio :(
14-Marja Lethonen
15-Desiree Ellis

Top 6 qualify for 2006 Ms. Olympia


I would have had it a little different

1) Yax
2) Kyle
3) Cadeau
4) Priest
5) Raganot
6) Jennings
7) Lethonen
8) Williams
9) Jitka
10) Viana
11) Pariso
12) Norman
13) Mendoza
14) Rivieccio
15) Ellis

Priest, Jennings, Lethonen, and Williams got ripped!

[CalJoe]

Joe, you've gotta be kidding.... just be done w/ it why even bother responding at this point?? LOL

Amanda
You should know me better than that...lol.