Amanda Spreading Love On The 'Net

[Echo]

Re: Elena Seiple

I think its interesting that so many people cannot see the real reason to WHY elena didn't win the USA.... At the USA they judged primarily on shape/structure, meaning a true "X" frame, over anything else. At the Nationals, this is again why Elena didn't win, as well as now the lack of conditioning.

The NPC/IFBB is going back to the standards of shape/symmetry. It will be nice when everyone stops to realize what is going on, instead of looking at it from a whole CONTROVERSY against Elena. It's ridiculous. Like it or not, SHAPE won the Nationals, just like the USA. They want the classic lines like FLEX Wheeler, etc. These bodies are few and far between... You can't fix genetics.

Can anyone assess a physique anymore instead of playing favorites?

Amanda
__________________
Amanda Dunbar Official Website
http://www.amandad.com/menu/banners/amandabanner.jpg

[Echo]

RE: Elena Seiple

Sue, with much respect to you because I do respect the longevity you've had in this sport, as well as muscle maturity you have on your physique.... but you have no idea to what you are talking about with Elena.

I've know her for several years as you have and if you only knew..... Humility and respect is NOT what elena is about and that was quite evident at the USA which you didn't get to see because you werent in my room, backstage, out to eat, or anywhere near her and I that entire wknd to see the REAL side of Elena... nor were you near her every day she sent competitive emails to me, comparing physiques on a daily basis, placing her photos side by side to me... I could go on and on. I've seen the real elena and it saddens me more than I can even explain to you. And Sue, if you knew Elena THAT well you'd know how to spell her name correctly. You havent seen Elena full circle, and I wish I had seen it a LOOOONG time ago. You haven't because she doesnt feel threatened by you.

I have every right to evaluate anyones physique and make whatever comment I may. It's true with what I'm saying, until people realize what the judges on the national level are looking for, many people will not go any further and just continue to do more damage to themselves instead of helping themself. Its sad to see faces and bodies ruined, year after year due to excess and obsession. I do not live for bodybuilding and if anything am barely a fan of it at this point. The OCD disgusts me because it ruins so much of peoples lives.

I do this as a hobby and honestly couldn't care if I ever compete again, much less if I should or shouldnt make a valid statement. Take it or leave it, I only speak the truth. Most people just dont want to hear it. Thats what is sad.
Take care,
Amanda
__________________
Amanda Dunbar Official Website
http://www.amandad.com/menu/banners/amandabanner.jpg

[Amanda Dunbar]

I will again, stand by what I have written in response to comments on MM... One was a intended to be a private message to Sue, which is only the truth of what I have experienced (which most know nothing about) and the other is exactly what I feel fbbing has come to. I'm sorry most people don't realize what is going on in this sport, but when they do the sport will be a much better place and will be a lot healthier overall.


Amanda

[Mincky]

You have been in a training/posing video together with her.

You were friends at that moment?

[Amanda Dunbar]

Absolutely!!! We were very good friends...

Amanda

[Star Blaylock]

Absolutely!!! We were very good friends...

Amanda

Amanda,

The sooner you know that NO ONE knows what the judges want, the better. I think it's really sad that, to prove a point, you used yourself as an example and even worse, drug Elena through the dirt with you. Part of being a sportsman-like female bodybuilder/athlete is having grace when you fall, and remembering to keep the same grace after you rise. Everyone is humbled at one point or another...you are no exception. Be a lady and have some class.

[pussycat]

HIGH FIVE ECHO!!!!! The more I read her posts the more I am losing respect for Amanda. You really can see the "rookie know-it-all" coming out!
To say that she couldn't care less if she competes again? :wtf:

My words to this: Than shut the F____ up about other FBB's that do want to compete!!!

Thanks Echo for imforming all of us about this!!!

With All due respect,

Pussycat

[CalJoe]

Amanda,

The sooner you know that NO ONE knows what the judges want, the better. I think it's really sad that, to prove a point, you used yourself as an example and even worse, drug Elena through the dirt with you. Part of being a sportsman-like female bodybuilder/athlete is having grace when you fall, and remembering to keep the same grace after you rise. Everyone is humbled at one point or another...you are no exception. Be a lady and have some class.
Star makes a great point, and she makes it very eloquently. I am in strong agreement. :sprite10:

[Maxt]

Hey Amanda you are always going to get a lot of support because you are friendly, outgoing, smart and determined. There is no doubt you paid your dues to bodybuilding by working hard at it from a young age. After your rest and your education I am sure you are going to do great in the IFBB as a pro! Much love and support from Maxt.

[CalJoe]

HIGH FIVE ECHO!!!!! The more I read her posts the more I am losing respect for Amanda. You really can see the "rookie know-it-all" coming out!
To say that she couldn't care less if she competes again? :wtf:

My words to this: Than shut the F____ up about other FBB's that do want to compete!!!

Thanks Echo for imforming all of us about this!!!

With All due respect,

Pussycat
A very strong post from Pussycat, but I totally agree with what she says.

[jason256]

Dear Almost All on this thread

I do not believe in board censorship but I do believe it is inappropriate to

1) post anyone's private correspondence

and

2) use it to denigrate that person

If you want to criticize Amanda, or anyone else, for what they have 'publically' posted that is fair game. However once the line of privacy is crossed, and unless this thread is ended it will quickly become the norm on this and other boards, I believe it will end up very hurtful and discouraging to a lot of people and with absolutely no positive outcomes gained other than the vindictive pleasures of a few.

Jason256

[Echo]

None of these are private messages. Not a single one. These are all public messages, properly credited to the author, presented in their entirety, which were posted on Muscle Mayhem's Forum. Check it out for yourself.

[Echo]

I dont think anyone has a clue to what lies ahead in the HW class..... The new standard is in effect this year of FULL PACKAGE. Size, shape, symmetry, hard as nails condition AND my favorite, FEMININE. lol. Whole package will win this year. WAIT TIL U SEE IT. I have seen the future winner a lot the past 2 weeks, lol. It's all over.... lol. I hope everyone is ready!!!

Team JABALEE in FULL EFFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amanda
__________________
Amanda Dunbar Official Website

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Maxt]

None of these are private messages. Not a single one. These are all public messages, properly credited to the author, presented in their entirety, which were posted on Muscle Mayhem's Forum. Check it out for yourself.I don't think it is appropriate to bring Muscle Mayhem feuds over here. I would be happier and have a better Thanksgiving Weekend if some people were more supportive of our athletes. Amanda Dunbar has given a lot of good comments here and she deserves respect for her accomplishments one and two some acknowledgement that most of what she is saying is correct.

[Maxt]

Dear Almost All on this thread

I do not believe in board censorship but I do believe it is inappropriate to

1) post anyone's private correspondence

and

2) use it to denigrate that person

If you want to criticize Amanda, or anyone else, for what they have 'publically' posted that is fair game. However once the line of privacy is crossed, and unless this thread is ended it will quickly become the norm on this and other boards, I believe it will end up very hurtful and discouraging to a lot of people and with absolutely no positive outcomes gained other than the vindictive pleasures of a few.

Jason256Jason256, I am in total agreement with you. Echo, I have got to say you have crossed the line of total inappropriateness. Why did you not get involved with this feud at Muscle Mayhem if it concerns you so?

[dannyu87]

Remember the Golden Rule - ‘if you can’t say anything nice, don’t
say anything at all’

or as ICE-T says,

Ice-T baby, this goes out to all you haters out there
Actin' like a brother done did somethin' wrong
cause he got his game tight
Don't hate the player, hate the game

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/icet/donthatetheplaya.html

http://i.timeinc.net/time/digital/reports/mp3/images/ice_t.jpg

[Star Blaylock]

Jason256, I am in total agreement with you. Echo, I have got to say you have crossed the line of total inappropriateness. Why did you not get involved with this feud at Muscle Mayhem if it concerns you so?

I personally have never read a single thread in regards to this fued on Mayhem, but unfortunately I did on this board. I find it hard for people to appreciate, give respect, or anything of the kind to someone that is just plain mean to a fellow competitor when it's not necessary. There are plenty of people who feel Amanda was the best suited winner for the USA title and vise versa. Once Amanda decided to bad mouth Elena and display a pompous attitude, then she has no choice but to deal with the consequences that follows. All's fair in love and war...I will, however, leave well enough alone. I think this whole thing stinks. It's one thing for the fans to have an opinion, but we as competitors shouldn't hold any grudges towards one another because we have no control over the outcome of any of the shows we compete in. The post I directed towards Amanda was solely based on what I read in this thread and I think it was totally appropriate. Nuff said...I hope everyone can find the love again because this is stupid.

Star

[pict]

HIGH FIVE ECHO!!!!! The more I read her posts the more I am losing respect for Amanda. You really can see the "rookie know-it-all" coming out!
To say that she couldn't care less if she competes again? :wtf:

My words to this: Than shut the F____ up about other FBB's that do want to compete!!!

Thanks Echo for imforming all of us about this!!!

With All due respect,

Pussycat

I, too, find myself in agreement with this sentiment. And though I respect amanda for her accomplishments, and admit she has a right to be as inflammatory/inconsiderate as she wants to be, wouldn't it be nice if she gave some thought to how what she says/does affects others? Here's hoping it is just the arrogance of youth that she will grow out of. And regarding the possibility of her not competing again, I find myself not really caring. Also, though I agree it is nice to be nice, what do we do with someone who isn't nice (not sure I know the answer to that, but I am glad to have more information to confirm what I had been concluding on my own anyway).

[jasons805]

I see no point in bring this up over here. I think it is over water under the bridge.

[gymdiva1222]

Nuff said...I hope everyone can find the love again because this is stupid.

Star


I could not agree more with this simple statement...

[CalJoe]

I find it interesting that I received more criticism in this forum for stating my opinions on the 2005 USA results (Amanda vs. Elena) than Amanda is for slamming a fellow athlete in Elena, who is widely respected and very liked in the sport. :headscrat

[chezzie]

I'm completely behind Amanda in this argument. This is a sport, and people on muscle mayhem make it out to be a quest toward personal fulfillment. Everything Amanda said about the judging, the shape, and the new standards is true. The others just didn't want to hear it. Elena did not put her package together the right way, and until she can walk away with a title, she will always be second best. For a reason.

[jason256]

I find it interesting that I received more criticism in this forum for stating my opinions on the 2005 USA results (Amanda vs. Elena) than Amanda is for slamming a fellow athlete in Elena, who is widely respected and very liked in the sport. :headscrat

Hi Cal

I think it is pretty clear that Amanda did not intend for the reply to Sue to be posted on the muscle mayhem site or here.

Regarding the 'X factor' that is Amanda's opinion, and justbecause it disagrees with many on this board does not automatically make it a 'slam'.

Jason256

PS - actually I disagree with Amanda on the importance of a genetically narrow waist (if it was the main factor we should be searching for future FBB champions on anorexia blogs) but she has the right to say it without it being taken as a 'slam'.

[strong woman]

All I will say is that this is just like when the judges gave the win in Miss International to Anja Schreiner. Anja suddenly thought she knew everything that was going on in FBB and that she was the one to save it! That lasted right up to the Miss Olympia that year where the same judges placed her way below all the "bigger" women! Anja has not done much since then, which is what I think will be the same for Amanda!!

Hanne

[Maxt]

Now Hanne the situation is different. Comparisons like that are problematic. Anja Schreiner would have done great in the IFBB had she been willing to lift heavier and carry the off season muscle that she did not want. Amanda seems to be much more into the sport of Bodybuilding in fact the consummate student of the game who rose up with the big win to be a kind of teacher. She is making good sense. Please listen to her and read what she says. If she takes the sport seriously and competes hard like she has the past five years there is no reason why she won't do very well for the next five years?

[bigenginebb]

maxt salvage some dignity.

[Harry The Hat]

I'm sure that Amanda is a smart, determined and sincere young woman. What she has to say is not without merit, but then again they're also not the unique insights she presents them as. The changes in judging criteria have been discussed throughout FBBing.

Untimately, the overall effect is one of insecurity. Her posts towards Elena come across as a defensive justification of her win over Elena. Elena is a popular competitor and people have been waiting for her to make the breakthrough for a while now. The posts read like 'you think I was gifted a pro card - well I won it fair and square.' The refusal to compete at pro level also reinforces this sense of insecurity. Thrown into the pro ranks, Amanda seems unsure of her ability to compete at that level.

I were Amanda, I'd feel my point about winning the pro card has been made at this point. What next? Well, when Joanna T won the UK Championships at 21, she took 2-3 years to build, improve and refine. She then won the first pro contest she entered. She's never placed lower than second in a pro quaifier since. That's the way to answer critics.

At the end of the day the most compelling argument a FBB can present is her physique itself. It stands as a testament to how she believes the female physique should look. Anja Langer never followed the crowd, never chased after mass. She never won a Ms O, the closest she came was 2nd in 1988. But to this day, people remember her and the impact her physique created is still with us. People remember the physique long after the message board posts are gone.

[Echo]

...... I would be happier and have a better Thanksgiving Weekend if some people were more supportive of our athletes.

Consider Amanda's statements which she reaffirms in post #3:

1) She suggests that Elena did not or can not win due to sub-optimum genetics.

2) "Humility and respect are not what Elena is all about."

3) "The OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder, a psychiatric diagnosis, that she claims, without substantiation, is pervasive in female bodybuilding) disgusts me because it ruins so much of peoples lives."

4) "I am barely a fan of it (female bodybuilding) at this point."


Do you really find such statements to be "supportive of our athletes?" If so, then you should have a very happy Thanksgiving weekend.


Amanda Dunbar has given a lot of good comments here and she deserves respect for her accomplishments one and two some acknowledgement that most of what she is saying is correct.

No thanks, Maxt. I respect the physique. As for an acknowledgement of the "correctness" of her statements, let's just say I'll pass on that one.

[bigenginebb]

I believe Echo and Star make very insightful points about character and substance instead of stabs and insults. "dont just talk about it, be about it." Talking about support and character since you mention Joanna T. I watched her run around the Natls in Atlanta helping oil, bikini bite, pointers, hair, make up whoever asked or didnt ask. One of those that received her help was my wife. She needed some bikini bite applied, and she asked a certain FBB Pro (no names) but she was not interested in giving a couple of minutes to help. (although this fbb had promised to help and do whatever in conversations and emails) fortunately Joanna jumped right in and not only helped Tang but gave helpful hints on suits and other tidbits. Wow. Cant forget Heather Foster who jumped in and helped Tang with her suit too. Two pros not looking for their ass to be kissed; just looking to help their sport. Kudos to them and the ones that dont just talk about it, but those that act out what they say too.
my 2 pennies.

[Echo]

Hi Cal

I think it is pretty clear that Amanda did not intend for the reply to Sue to be posted on the muscle mayhem site or here.

Then please explain why Amanda publicly posted the reply, rather than send a reply through the private message system where others would not see it. In any event, isn't this a moot point since Amanda reaffirmed that she stands behind what she had written in post #3?

Regarding the 'X factor' that is Amanda's opinion, and just because it disagrees with many on this board does not automatically make it a 'slam'.

Most forum members can identify and appreciate an "X-frame." Amanda has certainly made it a point to remind us that she possesses an "X-frame," at least in the frontal view. And that's the problem in the view of many forum members. Amanda shows little hesitancy in pointing out the "genetic" or developmental flaws in others while opining as if she does not have any flaws herself.

PS - actually I disagree with Amanda on the importance of a genetically narrow waist (if it was the main factor we should be searching for future FBB champions on anorexia blogs) but she has the right to say it without it being taken as a 'slam'.

Amanda has the right to say anything she wants. She just doesn't have the right to be respected by repeatedly treading on the unseamly ground of pointing out "genetic" deficiencies in her peers. Just ask competitors, like Sara Dunlap or Elena Seiple, if such comments have earned their respect.

[Maxt]

Consider Amanda's statements which she reaffirms in post #3:

1) She suggests that Elena did not or can not win due to sub-optimum genetics.

2) "Humility and respect are not what Elena is all about."

3) "The OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder, a psychiatric diagnosis, that she claims, without substantiation, is pervasive in female bodybuilding) disgusts me because it ruins so much of peoples lives."

4) "I am barely a fan of it (female bodybuilding) at this point."


Do you really find such statements to be "supportive of our athletes?" If so, then you should have a very happy Thanksgiving weekend.




No thanks, Maxt. I respect the physique. As for an acknowledgement of the "correctness" of her statements, let's just say I'll pass on that one.I read that what Amanda Dunbar said and I say that there is a lot of truth there. I hope she is a fan of female bodybuilding, but you know different people want different things from female bodybuilding. I want it to be a healthier sport with a better image acceptable to a greater number of people and most of all I want it to be gender-specific. That means femininity and that means the winners and highest placed trophy winners are to look like women as a fundamental principle with no sacrifices of femininity. Women with muscles yes, but most importantly women. I think Amanda Dunbar believes in that principle. She wanted to convey a great image for female bodybuilding that was more feminine like in the Eighties and she did it. That is very important to acknowledge: She did a very good job of accomplishing what she set out to do and said she'd do. At that stage a few of you ladies might be better off taking heed of what she has said in this new era of change in women's bodybuilding that will benefit some but not the women that have pushed the limits of their femininity to the point that they take on masculine characteristics. I don't want to see that. I do not think the corporate interests do. I think we should understand that Amanda Dunbar did a pretty good job winning the USA and not take her words or quotations out of the context where they were spoken.

[genex]

I'm going to lock down this thread mostly b/c a lot of what needs to be said has been.

Let's all move on shall we?

gene