FBB just a sport?

[Pete]

Nearly as impressive as tanned, oiled, striated pairs of female quads in a heavyweight callout is how FBB has transitioned from an infant sporting subculture into a global community of FBBs and admirers which has gone beyond just sport thanks mainly to the internet. Are there any Phds in Flexology and Flexonomics who have written dissertations on that process it would make good reading. Most sports and cultural phenomena have their historians and chroniclers does FBB have its own equivalents to compress the last few decades into a summary of the cultural, social, economic and psychosexual aspects of FBB. I remember Laurie Fierstein was doing something along those lines a few years ago with an artistic exhibition she organised and I seem to remember a book that came out with pics of early FBBs like Lisa Lyon Im not sure if there have been similar attempts.

[genex]

I'm sure Steve Wennestrom would have a lot to say as he's the IFBB Women's Historian as well.

[Pete]

Guess what I was getting at is that from the first copies of WPW that I picked up in the 1980s FBBing was more than just a sport FBBing was like rock n roll pushing the envelope blowing away stereotypes a total departure from what went before. What was going on in the minds of FBBers their ideology all had just as much appeal as who beat who at that years Ms O. FBBing is more than just a combination of competing body parts its what FBBers have to say as well as what they look like thats interesting.

[Maxt]

Not just a sport, an adventure all the way live: check it out Petey?

[Maxt]

I'm sure Steve Wennestrom would have a lot to say as he's the IFBB Women's Historian as well.Does he post on any message boards?

[SHADOWMAN]

A DYNAMIC AESTHETIC DISPLAY OF THE ULTIMATE EVOLUTIONARY FORM OF EXHAULTED POWERFUL FEMININITY MADE OF STRONG BEAUTIFUL MUSCLE!!!!!!!!

[genex]

Steve W. doesn't post to msg boards

[Harry The Hat]

As soon as I saw the very first modern FBBs - I think it was an article and pictures in a UK women's magazine of the Gold's competition won by Lisa Lyons in 1979 - I knew that this was a great deal more than just a sport. It's a way of defining and redefining feminity and what it means to be a woman. It challenges assumptions in a very overt, in-your-face way.

There are a number of books examining the cultural phenomenon and context of FBBing including 'Bodymakers: A Cultural Anatomy of Women's Bodybuilding' by Leslie Heywood (1998); 'Women of Steel: Female Bodybuilders and the Struggle for Self-Definition' by Maria R. Lowe (also 1998); 'Monster/Beauty: Building the Body of Love' by Joanna Frueh (2000); and more recently 'Iron Maidens : The Celebration of the Most Awesome Female Muscle in the World' by Kristin Kaye (2005). A couple of them even go into the wrestling/schmoe sub-culture.

You can also throw into the mix photography books like 'Modern Amazons' by Bill Dobbins; 'Lady', a photographic study of Lisa Lyons by Robert Mapplethorpe; 'Physique: An Intimate Portrait of the Female Fitness Athlete' (FBBs and fitness women are profiled) by Paul B. Goode and the novel 'Chemical Pink' by Katie Arnoldi, which is far-fetched but good fun and a right rattling read.

Although I think she's retired, if you can dig up any articles by Lisa Bavington, she has smart, well-thoughout views on both the FBB phenomenon and how society (and the predominantly male bodybuilding establishment) react to it. She used to have quite a few articles up on her website but that's been taken down.

Women's bodybuilding is still, after more than 20 years, misunderstood and under-appreciated.

[Eddie]

I'm sure Steve Wennestrom would have a lot to say as he's the IFBB Women's Historian as well.

I'm guessing Mr. Wennestrom must be the most respected historian of Ladies Bodybuilding.

Maybe even more so than Mr. Bill Dobbins.

I'm sure both of them believe that BB is a legitimate sport.

But most people don't and I am one of them.

At least not the actual competition part of it in my view.

[eseiple]

sport(spôrt, sprt)
n.
1.
a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively
b. A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively
3. An active pastime; recreation.


ITS A SPORT...END OF DISCUSSION.

[Eddie]

Well . . not so fast Elena.

Those definitions make sense and all . . but how do you explain the subjectiveness of this "sport"?

The same can be said for Gymnastics, Figure Skating, and others that rely mostly on judging to determine the outcome.

Plus with BB at least the IFBB & NPC brand, the rules are constantly changing and creating confusion.

I'm not sure thats a good way to "govern" any kind of organized sport.

[Brandon]

Well . . not so fast Elena.


Plus with BB at least the IFBB & NPC brand, the rules are constantly changing and creating confusion.

I'm not sure thats a good way to "govern" any kind of organized sport.


Although I am not a fan of racing, Nascar is constantly changing their rules and creating confusion. Sports of all kinds are constantly evolving to accomodate change in culture, technology, and public appeal. People generally fear change.

[Athena]

I'm going with Elena on this one. This is the second 'Sport' I have been involved that was considered a 'non-sport'. Most of my childhood and part of my teen yrs I was a rhythmic gymnast and was constantly being told that it wasn't actually a sport. To that I say..:wtf: I worked as hard as any other athlete and still do.

Explain to me why BBing is NOT a sport.

[genex]

I also think people define sports differently. Look at the IOC - the Olympics has some very interesting sports, and some people might not consider some of them sports.

Then ESPN, the total sports network broadcasts the National Spelling Bee. Personally I'd say that the people that participate in bodybuilding are athletes and that it's a sport.

[genex]

P.S. the only 'sport' i ever got a trophy in is bowling and that was for the highest score with handicap so even then i still sucked

[diggs]

sport(spôrt, sprt)
n.
1.
a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively
b. A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively
3. An active pastime; recreation.


ITS A SPORT...END OF DISCUSSION.


Avid gardeners that submit their plants for plant shows also qualify to fit this definition of "sport". I'm not disagreeing with Elena, but I am saying that this definition of sport is general enough to be indiscriminate.

[John Stutz]

The way I see it, if soccer can be considered a sport, then so can bodybuilding. And gardening.

[Morningstar]

[QUOTE=Eddie;36415]I'm guessing Mr. Wennestrom must be the most respected historian of Ladies Bodybuilding.

Steve is not only the most respected historian in female body building but the man knows the female physique PERIOD! He coached several female atheletes in track & feild way before he even got involved in BB. When Steve gives advice I shut up and listen. In my opinion he has earned the title "The Historian of Female Body Building."

[Maxt]

Steve W. doesn't post to msg boardsDoes he post at Muscular Development now that they have hired him as a writer for female bodybuilding? Hard freaking core!

[CalJoe]

I'm going with Elena on this one. This is the second 'Sport' I have been involved that was considered a 'non-sport'. Most of my childhood and part of my teen yrs I was a rhythmic gymnast and was constantly being told that it wasn't actually a sport. To that I say..:wtf: I worked as hard as any other athlete and still do.

Explain to me why BBing is NOT a sport.
I agree with you and Elena in defining the essence of bb as it relates to being a sport. What diminishes Women's BB as a sport is the state of judging in the sport. While there are many good decisions there is too often a sense of subjectivity with regard to criteria that has not been, is not, and might not ever be conclusively and concretely defined.

The sport is subjective enough without getting into the often debated topic of "femininity" and what exactly is it's definition within bodybuilding. On top of that you have inconsistencies that occur in women's professional bodybuilding when relatively unknown foreign competitors go against long established American competitors.

So, yes I agree that women's bb is a sport in a perfect world and according to Webster's definition of a sport, but sadly the reality often strays from the definition, and the judging is very far from a perfect world.

[Maxt]

Cal Joe women's bodybuilding is a sport but maybe even more than a sport: an art and lifestyle and most importantly it is women's bodybuilding not men's bodybuilding so the genders are different the criteria for success is different. That is why with the judging you have to have rewards for stage presence, grace, balance, symmetry, beauty and the finest details of presentation so people that represent greater reflections of the general public will be pleased and give the sport acceptance. So women's bodybuilding IS a sport but it is an art, a lifestyle and still a business that cannot thrive without promoters, sponsors, competitors and organizations being able to make money on it. Again it is very important that competitors look like women with femininity and not men. This concept is the foundation for the sport's credibility and devoid of this philosphy there is none.

[bthomas77]

i bet we all would agree that Baseball is a sport. baseball has a rule book more complex then most any sport in the world, and as to subjectivity, every single pitch is rule upon. every single time a pitcher goes into his windup it is judged, there are rules for everything. everytime there is a close play there is judgement call that an umpire has to make....football is similar....so if baseball and football can be sports, then bodybuilding is definatly a sport

[Tre]

i bet we all would agree that Baseball is a sport.
Baseball is a game, not a sport.

Bodybuilding is all 3:

1) Art
2) Science
3) Sport

[eseiple]

Defintion of GAME:

game is a recreational activity involving one or more players. This can be defined by A) a goal that the players try to reach, B) some set of rules that determines what the players can or can not do. Games are played primarily for entertainment or enjoyment, but may also serve an educational or simulational role.

[CBJ1965]

Defintion of GAME:

game is a recreational activity involving one or more players. This can be defined by A) a goal that the players try to reach, B) some set of rules that determines what the players can or can not do. Games are played primarily for entertainment or enjoyment, but may also serve an educational or simulational role.


Who cares, you're all on steriod abuse anyway...

[bthomas77]

Who cares, you're all on steriod abuse anyway...


umm...do i sense a little bitterness........:wtf:

maybe you need some....:weed: :confused:

[CalJoe]

Defintion of GAME:

game is a recreational activity involving one or more players. This can be defined by A) a goal that the players try to reach, B) some set of rules that determines what the players can or can not do. Games are played primarily for entertainment or enjoyment, but may also serve an educational or simulational role.
I feel like women's bb might be classified in the two different stages that comprise competing. Women's bb most resembles a sport during the pre-contest phase. Any athletic endeavor/sport/competetion requires practice, dedication, discipline and hard work, and this is where women's bb is like any other sport. Going head to head with a competitor while executing mandatories is more of a sport from the vantage point of the competitors themselves. The competition seems like performance art from the perspective of the audience.

The judging? Well, that's the part that at times resembles a game without science.

[Athena]

Not trying to be mean, but if you have nothing nice to say about us why are you here?


Who cares, you're all on steriod abuse anyway...

[Morningstar]

Who cares, you're all on steriod abuse anyway...

That's not always the case. I personaly know a few natural BB's male and female. There are a lot of supplements that women can take that give huge gains. All of which you can pick up at you local nutrition and supplement store. Women don't have to take much to change our bodies, some thing as simple as DHEA and Tribulus can chage a female physique with in a year. A little education wouldn't hurt such a narrow mind. P.S. it might make you a better "smart ass".:rolleyes:

[dmyawors]

I always thought that the female muscle online community of athletes, production companies, photographers, magazines, admirers, competition org's, fitness lifestyle sites, fetish sites, schmoes, etc. would be a great thesis subject. I got my BA in cultural anthropology, and had I attempted to pursue it in grad school, I think that this subject would have been deep, rich, and virtually unexplored.

And as far as the 'Is it a sport' thing goes, I've always seen it as more of a pageant. And please don't be angry because I don't mean to diminish it's integrity or sport-ness by any means by saying that. And of course I group the male bb competition in with that, too.

The only reason I say it's more like a pageant is because the criterion seems to be alot more appearance than execution. The actual movements of the stage routine counts for alot, I imagine, but I don't think that the ratio of appearance to execution in the judging criteria is as high as in something like rhythmic gymnastics. (And I'm not talking about all the politics and competing ideas about "feminity" and whatever else that play into the actual competition -- that's besides the point.) As far as the basic form of the competition go, I'd call it more pageant than sport.

[CalJoe]

I always thought that the female muscle online community of athletes, production companies, photographers, magazines, admirers, competition org's, fitness lifestyle sites, fetish sites, schmoes, etc. would be a great thesis subject. I got my BA in cultural anthropology, and had I attempted to pursue it in grad school, I think that this subject would have been deep, rich, and virtually unexplored.

And as far as the 'Is it a sport' thing goes, I've always seen it as more of a pageant. And please don't be angry because I don't mean to diminish it's integrity or sport-ness by any means by saying that. And of course I group the male bb competition in with that, too.

The only reason I say it's more like a pageant is because the criterion seems to be alot more appearance than execution. The actual movements of the stage routine counts for alot, I imagine, but I don't think that the ratio of appearance to execution in the judging criteria is as high as in something like rhythmic gymnastics. (And I'm not talking about all the politics and competing ideas about "feminity" and whatever else that play into the actual competition -- that's besides the point.) As far as the basic form of the competition go, I'd call it more pageant than sport.
I agree with your take on fbb appearing to be like a pageant as opposed to a sport, but only when it comes to certain specific aspects of the competition day itself. The mandatory comparisons are a little more intense than what you might associate with a pageant, and that's where the element of a sport is more the proper comparison.

As far as all the work that goes into creating that onstage physique: to me that's the biggest aspect that likens bb to a sport.

[vvvroom]

Who cares, you're all on steriod abuse anyway...

hahahaha.................you vicious thing! :1eek:

[Tre]

Not trying to be mean, but if you have nothing nice to say about us why are you here?
He's trying to get some.

But he wants you to think that his only goal is to 'meet' you (plural).

[Gerri]

I haven't been on this forum in awhile...got a team of athletes getting ready for the Emerald Cup (Go G-Force!)

When I saw this post and the ensuing threads, I just had to throw my two cents in...

I totally agree with Elena on this one. I've been an athlete since age 4. Swimming, Volleyball, Basketball, Track & Field, Marathon, Triathlon, you name it...I've dabbled in a lot of them. The HARDEST sport by far, that I've participated in is bodybuilding. Anyone not considering it a sport hasn't got a clue what it takes to be a bodybuilding athlete. I bet Steve Wennerstrom would agree with me on this one...

[Mirko]

Its time for me to say something with min piss poor english :sprite10: and presumably i,m the only one who have no clue what i talk about on this forum :big grin but i will give it a try anyway...

First of all (my personal opinion) i will classify Bodybuilding as a sport, there is no doubt about that.. The athletes in the sport of Bodybuilding are athletes like anyone else, i,m an athlete of my self and i practise 4 times every week and play at least one game every week, the reason i practise and push my self to become better and better, its a competition for me against others everytime i practise...

Bodybuilders i guess do the very same thing, they cant sit on the ass and become champions, they need to puch them self everyday as well cos the results dont come by it selfs, its a lot of hard work behind it and the target is to be better then others when competition day comes, i dont think bodybuilders practise everyday for the 2 place, they practise to become better then the others on competition day, its a very simpel explanation but this is the reasons why bodybuilding cant be classify by anything esle then a sport ! its a sport...

Problem with bodybuilding are maybe that this sport is not mamber in the olympic family yet, as soon the sport become mamber it will become much more popular, an golden bodybuilding olympic medal will be as much celebrate as an track and field medal, or swimming medal at home, the athletes will become heros in the public opinion..

This is the key, maybe some changes should be done and then this sport will become an mamber for sure... The drugs are the only problem today, if the sport become 110% clean i think the sport will become a mamber faster then soon..

To the man and female bodybuilders on this forum, dont care what others say, you know that you practise to become better than others and you know its a sport so what CBJ1965 say dont mean much anyway, the most importent is how you feel.. I say go Girls and Boys..

PS! TX to the people who did help me out with the question i hade in the other topic about endurance :)

[pict]

Who cares, you're all on steriod abuse anyway...

Where'd this come from? this person is obviously having a bad day. "Holy ingorance, battyman!" Who cares? - LOTS OF PEOPLE. Just go to a show sometime and see - or - how about checking out some of the many forums and all the people who participate. It'd probably be more accurate to ask who cares about this poster.

[Eddie]

I haven't been on this forum in awhile...got a team of athletes getting ready for the Emerald Cup (Go G-Force!)

When I saw this post and the ensuing threads, I just had to throw my two cents in...

I totally agree with Elena on this one. I've been an athlete since age 4. Swimming, Volleyball, Basketball, Track & Field, Marathon, Triathlon, you name it...I've dabbled in a lot of them. The HARDEST sport by far, that I've participated in is bodybuilding. Anyone not considering it a sport hasn't got a clue what it takes to be a bodybuilding athlete. I bet Steve Wennerstrom would agree with me on this one...

Gerri

First want to say I do have a very high level of respect for you and all Lady bodybuilders as athletes.

Its incredible what you all do with your physique and the kind of artistic masterpiece that you can make it into.

I know that its the most challenging individual athletic activity that one can do in this life.

That's why I like to believe that I'm just as passionate about being a fan of ladies BB
as you ladies are about being dedicated and involved in the industry.

So I was never knocking the athleticism required to be good at it.

I simply pointed out that it was not as cut & dry in regards to determining a winner as is the case in Football, Baseball, Basketball, and sports that are decided by a team or individual outdoing their opponent based on sheer will and not having to surcome to someone behind a table who makes the decision on wins and loses.

So it is that part of it . . that lessens it as a sport.

But yes if you want to go on the athletic nature of it alone - then no question its a sport.

[eseiple]

and thats why I love Gerri! :)

[chris10000]

it is a sport 360 days of the year , maybe the hardest , because you have to be a sportsperson 24 hours per day !
most other sports dont care about nutrition etc ... they have one hour training and that is it....as a bb you need discipline every day , every hour.

but on stage it is a show

[Mirko]

I simply pointed out that it was not as cut & dry in regards to determining a winner as is the case in Football, Baseball, Basketball, and sports that are decided by a team or individual outdoing their opponent based on sheer will and not having to surcome to someone behind a table who makes the decision on wins and loses.

However from own personal experience i tell you that i been ivolved in games when reff have decided soccer games, payd or not it hade an major impact on the out come... I,m sure one sided reffs exist in most of the team sports...

However i gett your point, i also think its wrong that reffs decide individual sports as exampel bodybuilding, or skijump or iceskateing or swin jump... Through the years you hade many reff scandals by public opinion in the olympics individual..

I thinks its unfair that some individual reffs decide the winner, they are humans and humans can make mistakes (deliberate or not) and it would be very unfair to an bodybuilder or iceskater who put down so much hard work to be out reffed...

Maybe the best solution is to computerize it some how ? let machines do the jobb ? or why not let the audience have the right to vote as well in a bodybuilding event ? i think it would be very fair... Some proposal from me..

[Mirko]

it is a sport 360 days of the year , maybe the hardest , because you have to be a sportsperson 24 hours per day !
most other sports dont care about nutrition etc ... they have one hour training and that is it....as a bb you need discipline every day , every hour.

but on stage it is a show


I think you are a bit wrong here, i think i talk about most of the elit sportsperson would wide and not only about me, i cant drink alcohol at all, i cant eat junk food either cos it would effect my body negative and i cant do my best, one of the team mambers come with hangover to practise and he gott his sallery cut down for that month, penalty for poor discipline..

I dont live an normal life, i wish i could eat macdonalds and pizza like anyone else, i have to live and eat right so its a 24H jobb for me too....

A part from that we practise minimum 2H, thats very useal, sometimes in the gym (mostly practise the legs in the gym) then we practise on the pitch (technique, systems , tactics e,t,c) and also lot of running both on pitch and out side the pitch..

[chris10000]

i dont know which sport you are in....
maybe you do everything....
but as a nutrionist i am involved in other sports also..
i found out how poor they care about protein intake etc...
the most only eat 3 times a day...
and some of them are worldchamp in other sports

[Eddie]

Maybe the best solution is to computerize it some how ? let machines do the jobb ? or why not let the audience have the right to vote as well in a bodybuilding event ? i think it would be very fair... Some proposal from me..

Well Mirko - I do understand your point of view and respect your suggestions.

But I highly disagree with those proposals. The IFBB has experimented with computerized scoring for the men at least.

Used it for the "challenge round" at the Olympia and that is now gone.

Too many glitches and delays can take place with computers so that just won't work.

And while I think many in the audience have a good perspective on what ladies bodybuilding and fitness for that matter such be about,
I think it would lessen it as a sport even more because then it becomes a popularity contest much like the Miss USA & Universe Pagents where celebrities from out of the blue can come and be a judge.

So it would not make sense to pay people to come an be official judges and ask them along with fans who are not being paid to declare
a champion. It makes the organization even more unprofessional than it already is especially when it comes to fairness and objectivity.

[John Stutz]

The words we choose say more about what we’re trying to say than what we are saying. Confusing thought? Possibly, but those words are chosen quite carefully. And I, along with a million psychologists, will stand by that assertion quite fervently.

So it is with this in mind that I’d like to attempt to broaden the perspective of this topic; one which certainly isn’t the first of its kind or even remotely unique. And apparently, after some research, it’s an interesting enough debate to have been continued for centuries (not exclusively about bodybuilding mind you – that would be weird).

I will assert that this question of whether bodybuilding is a sport simply can’t be answered – and therefore is unlikely worth debating. It’s clearly worth discussing though, which has already brought to light many interesting viewpoints worthy of consideration from (almost) everyone who has contributed to this thread.

So why am I jumping into the conversation so late? Well, I’ve been watching this thread since the first post, and several facets of it (as you’ll soon read) have a great deal to do with my own hobby – more specifically, how I represent my arts and the words I use to do so.

Early on in the thread, a definition for sport was postulated -- a rather shortsighted and perhaps intentionally narrow definition, but a definition nonetheless. But the definition of sport (preferably a more widely acceptable version) is not the only one that matters in this discussion. So as a public service, and in an effort to see how much time I can waste, I’ve done a little more homework, which I thought would be interesting enough to add to the discussion – complete with editorial comments of course.

Sport (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sport) -This definition is much broader and in no way provides a conclusive answer to the question of whether or not bodybuilding is considered a sport. Again, I don’t think we can get enough agreement to even try and answer that question, so none of this is intended to provide evidence one way or the other.

Pageant (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pageant) - Someone brought up the notion that bodybuilding may be more akin to a pageant. Perhaps the shoe fits, perhaps not. I think definition 5 is particularly funny, which clearly applies to most things we think of as pageant, unless you compete in the pageant of course. Certainly we know differently about bodybuilding/fitness/figure, but one ought to consider what outsiders of the fitness industry might think?

Exhibition (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exhibition) - Clearly, the contest itself is an exhibition of sorts. And this may be the crux of the entire debate. Whereas it clearly takes lots of practice, work, and execution prior to stepping on stage, the actual peculiarity of the competition is what makes it so damn hard to conclusively justify as a sport.

Competition (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/competition) - No doubt all aspects of this word apply to bodybuilding/fitness/figure. This doesn’t inherently make anything a sport though. But it’s an important word, and one I’ll come back to later on.

Competitor (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/competitor) - Same as competition.

Athlete (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/athlete) - Imho, bodybuilders/fitness/figure competitors are most assuredly athletes. Note however that it is also my opinion that not all sports are played by athletes and not all athletes play in sports.

Athletic (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/athletic) - I believe this particular definition clouds the issue more than it helps, carelessly fusing athletics and sports. Clearly there is high correlation. But clearly there is room for non-correlation.

Sculptor (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sculptor) - Here’s one you weren’t expecting, but I prominently use this term in my fine art print literature. You may not think this enters into any debate on sport, but I’ll reiterate that this ain’t no debate. And as a point of discussion, I think it’s something that bodybuilders/fitness/figure competitors ought to be more admired for than whether or not this qualifies as a sport.

Sculpture (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sculpture) - Take a moment to study this definition – really.

Artist (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/artist) - Again, let this definition really soak in.

Other interesting research to be found on the web:

List of Sports (Wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports) - This list is awfully broad. Amateur Radio Detection Finding? Balooning? Marching Band? Perhaps this is a list of activities that people enjoy.

List of Sports (Yahoo) (http://dir.yahoo.com/Recreation/sports/?skw=%22list+of+sports%22) - On the flip side, this list is much more limited, but it still has some peculiar entries such as dirtsurfing! And here’s an interesting one – dog racing. It would be highly egotistical to assume sports can only be played by humans, wouldn't it.

List of Sports (Olympic Committee) (http://www.olympic.org/uk/sports/index_uk.asp) - The de facto standard for determining sport. However, their credentials will continue to be in question so long as curling stays on the list. Bobsleigh is also highly questionable since gravity accounts for about 99% of this sport.

What is a sport? (http://www.sportscurmudgeon.com/topical/sports_and_athletes.html) - There are countless articles on the web. From people who firmly believe in their own mind that they are the universal judge to satiricists who understand the futility of the debate. But there are some interesting perspectives with rational arguments to be read on the web. I found this one to be particularly interesting since it focuses on distinguishing sports and athletes.

I think what makes bodybuilding/fitness/figure so hard to classify is that there is a great deal of disassociation between what it takes to compete versus the actual act of competing. Undoubtedly, by definition, it takes a great deal of athleticism, which in many cases is more substantial than the effort exerted by athletes of other "undeniable" sports. But the final act of competing is quite contradictory to most any notion of sport which traditionally involves a field of play, score boards, and referees. The stage show is completely objective, often influenced by political factors, uses non-deterministic judging criteria, and takes into account hair styles and swimsuit designs. Not to mention a host of other suspect actions that I’d prefer not to put my name to, but I’m sure we all know transpire from time to time.

Back to words:

I believe that how we ourselves, as members of the fitness industry, choose to speak about the individuals who participate is more telling about whether or not this is a sport. I know that in my own experience, I go out of my way to refer to anyone who steps on stage as a “competitor” or “athlete”. This carries into all of my conversations, e-mails, and writings as posted on my web site. Especially as a photographer, my counterpart is a “model” and I have absolutely no qualms whatsoever using this term when referring to conventional beauty models. But I’m still uncomfortable using the term “model” when the individual standing in front of my lens is a fitness competitor. Invariably, when booking shoots and referring to fitness athletes, I switch terminology to either “athlete” or “competitor” rather than “model” with the sole exception being my legal photo shoot agreements. It’s constant and always a conscientious choice of words.

However, I rarely hear anyone else use these terms. And yes, I listen. Invariably, the one word that is used in almost all cases is “girl”. Phrases like “Would you believe there are 72 girls in the figure D class!” are all too prevalent. The generic word is used in reference to hiring “girls” for expos, booking “girls” for a shoot, and putting “girls” onto stage. Contrary to my own beliefs, this does sound more akin to a pageant than a sport -- where the competitors are often individually referred to as athletes or players.

So is it a sport? Did you break a sweat? And if so, was it during the act of competing? Are quarter-turns technically considered aerobic activity? Are clear heals technically considered uniforms? These are all intermingled questions. Too much depends on perspective. Those in an industry might see themselves in a sport, others on the outside might see oddly-shaped people performing in pageants.

Whether or not this is all a sport in no way reflects on its importance or the credibility of those who choose to compete in it. Regardless, I do think everyone who steps on stage should be proud to be an artisan, and should recognize their own accomplishments having successfully attained the part of both sculptor and sculpture simultaneously. That’s no easy trick.

[Tre]

Wait, wait...

I'm trying to calculate the odds of me reading the entire post above.












:p

[John Stutz]

Wait, wait...

I'm trying to calculate the odds of me reading the entire post above.10 bucks says you read it twice before you could come up with a witty reply.

[Mirko]

Eddie@

Thanks for the explanations, appreciate it.. I,m not in any position to argue since this is your territory and you know what is the best.. Just by curiosity have you been unfair out reffed personaly sometimes ? how do an competitor complaine and who do he/she complaine to ? is it to the international federation ? have some complaine go through sometimes and have the result been changed after the show if the federation suspect something is very wrong..

Eddie if it dont take to long time from your spare time would you be kind to explanation the rules of the scoring, what is it the reffs look for in a competition ?

John Stutz@

Very good long post, tx for the interesting reading...

The stage show is completely objective, often influenced by political factors, uses non-deterministic judging criteria, and takes into account hair styles and swimsuit designs. Not to mention a host of other suspect actions that I’d prefer not to put my name to, but I’m sure we all know transpire from time to time.

Could you develup this thing with "political factors" ? to the reffs score for hair styles and swimsuit designs ? this most be a joke or ? if it is true its a major own goal for the sport i have to say, Is it the same for males as well ?

With respect to every individual, its up to every tennis player, bodybuilder or track and field athlete, many times you note track and field athlete and tennis players with make up so of course girls who do bodybuilding are not deferent from others females who do sports, like any other girls maybe they feel more comfortable with make up, but but but it should defenetive not have anything to do with the out come on the score bord, in this case the whole sport could be questioned if you ask me and how i see what sport is about and what sport is not about...

[Mirko]

i dont know which sport you are in....
maybe you do everything....
but as a nutrionist i am involved in other sports also..
i found out how poor they care about protein intake etc...
the most only eat 3 times a day...
and some of them are worldchamp in other sports



I do soccer, dont know if you know what socer is but is an very popular over here in europ.. I did other sports as kid but when i turn 14 i hade to choose a sport and today i dont regrett that choice..

Well from my personal experience i,m very carefull what i eat and also we gett programe what to eat, but also we eat together at the clubb resturant, we have our own sport cook.. I care very much about protein e,t,c and that is part of our programe that we have to do at home, so from my own personal experience i can tell that we focus a lot on this things...

Problem with me is that i,m not satisfied and i try to find other ways (as legal as possible nevertheless) and i look around on internet and i find this place as well, i gott some help over PM and i,m happy for that..

[chris10000]

I do soccer, dont know if you know what socer is but is an very popular over here in europ.. I did other sports as kid but when i turn 14 i hade to choose a sport and today i dont regrett that choice..

Well from my personal experience i,m very carefull what i eat and also we gett programe what to eat, but also we eat together at the clubb resturant, we have our own sport cook.. I care very much about protein e,t,c and that is part of our programe that we have to do at home, so from my own personal experience i can tell that we focus a lot on this things...

Problem with me is that i,m not satisfied and i try to find other ways (as legal as possible nevertheless) and i look around on internet and i find this place as well, i gott some help over PM and i,m happy for that..
soccer:cheers:
i am from austria......
the soccer player i know are the most party people :-)
excuse me please... no disrespect here , but...
but i am sure you dont know what bodybuilding food intake is..
did you ever try to eat 350 gramm (for fbb and for male 500 g ) of protein every day ????
did you ever try to eat between 5000 kcal clean food every day ?
did you ever try to eat 6 to 7 times a day ?
and this every day of the year.
when we go for a weekendtrip we have our car full with food
thats the most important part of bodybuilding but also the most difficult!

[bigbrother]

Who cares, you're all on steriod abuse anyway...
mmm ..... and than you complain fbb weren't nice to you !!!!!
bad attitude .... and way off topic
bitterness is never good, my friend

[bigbrother]

I consider bb as a physical activity according the workouts and cardio sessions.
As a form of art when it comes to posing.
It's a way of life 24/7 when it comes to nutrition.

Sport, game, hobby I don't want to take any position, and frankly i don't care.
I know from the inside it's a full time job.
Difficult to understand for someone who isn't a bodybuilder, and after 20 years of trying to explain ...... i gave up.

I love it. Period


cheers

[Captain_America]

A DYNAMIC AESTHETIC DISPLAY OF THE ULTIMATE EVOLUTIONARY FORM OF EXHAULTED POWERFUL FEMININITY MADE OF STRONG BEAUTIFUL MUSCLE!!!!!!!!
I have to say one thing about you SHADOWMAN, you are consistent.. You crack me up.. :)

[dmyawors]

I'm starting to regret proposing the whole "pageant" idea because I can see how it's diminutive and it makes bodybuilding competitions sound superficial. I'm a fan, so from now on I'll leave that to the haters.

I was thinking about this thread when I was stuck in traffic yesterday and it made me smile to think that bass fishing is called a sport, too. :music: So now I don't know what to think! haha

[Gerri]

Elena...I love you too! You are such an awesome athlete, lady, and fantastic ambassador of this sport!

Eddie...You are right that it's not "played" the same as football, etc...It is judged. But so are many other sports, and they are still sports. I know that you appreciate the hard work us girls put into this...Thank you for that. This is certainly an interesting post, and it's fun to read most everyone's opinions...

[Mirko]

soccer:cheers:
i am from austria......
the soccer player i know are the most party people :-)
excuse me please... no disrespect here , but...
but i am sure you dont know what bodybuilding food intake is..
did you ever try to eat 350 gramm (for fbb and for male 500 g ) of protein every day ????
did you ever try to eat between 5000 kcal clean food every day ?
did you ever try to eat 6 to 7 times a day ?
and this every day of the year.
when we go for a weekendtrip we have our car full with food
thats the most important part of bodybuilding but also the most difficult!

hallo Österreich ! :) Vor ich prüfte Spiel auf österreichische Mannschaft 2 Jahren, Mattersburg. Mannschaft ist von einer kleinen österreichischen Stadt, sehr netter Platz, Österreich ist ein sehr netter Platz, nicht wie Schweden :D aber noch nett :cheers:

Chris the players most belong to some village team in lower divssions lol, i think many players drink during the winter and summer break when we have holiday for 3 weeks, but the more you drink and eat the harder you will gett on the preseason when the heavyst training are made, i try to make the preseason as easy as possible and thats why i dont drink much...

Chris when it come to food i dont eat 6-7 dinners every day, but when its match day we eat break fast as useal, an prity early dinner with the team together, then we eat at HT, not food but a lot of banana e,t,c, and after the game we have an collective dinner onece again, some times we play twice a week, league and the domestic cup and we have to eat a lot so the body can gett back some power, we have 4 practise days as well.. Afetr the dinner i useal eat something at home as well , nothing bigg, more like banana...

Chris you practrise the sport of bodybuilding so i cant argue with you, you know how it is for you so i cant argue with that and i have to agree if it is like you say, you focus more on food then we, no doubt about it mate..

But i wonder why you eat so much ? how much carbohydrate do you lose for two hours of practise in the gym ? would it not be enough with food 4-5 time every day ? it should cover the carbohydrate loss for this two hours..

[chris10000]

i need to change my comment !!
in a sportcontest the best will win !

maybe in the future will win the one who send the most mails to betty and the organization.... trying to change standards and making new division until they win ! (thread new division)

in a real sport , if you dont win you go home and train harder .

[dogbump]

Not trying to be mean, but if you have nothing nice to say about us why are you here?


Why does everybody on this forum have to kiss butt? He was stating an opinion.

In my opinion Bodybuilding is a sport. If figure skating and gymnastics are sports, then bodybuilding most certainly is.

But if somebody wants to say it isn't a sport.......I could care less. Doesn't affect me at all.

[Juggernaut]

Shadowman has got the right idea. Female Bodybuilding is the sport with the most female muscle.

[Juggernaut]

i need to change my comment !!
in a sportcontest the best will win !

maybe in the future will win the one who send the most mails to betty and the organization.... trying to change standards and making new division until they win ! (thread new division)

in a real sport , if you dont win you go home and train harder .Maybe in a sport like bodybuilding, just like in the NFL there needs to be a rules committee that takes on input from players and coaches adapting the sport to make it better and thereby realistically reflecting the most important concerns of the athletes.