Wayne Demilia's PDI

[ricard]

In this piece Wayne justifies why he is setting up the "PDI" as an alternative to IFBB. As for the comment about V-shape physiques, I do believe that the men have "lost the plot" and that the top women are presenting far better quality physiques.

From GETBIG
"Yes - it does, but you also have to go and find certain demographics and bodybuilding fans that are no longer attending the events. When I got involved in bodybuilding in the early 1970's, this was before women were involved in the events; this is pre-women in the gyms. The gyms were separated. There were ladies gyms and men's gyms. It isn't like today that when you go into gym and men and women are training in the same facility. That didn't go on. And the gay community at the time supported bodybuilding heavily. The gay community lately has dropped away from bodybuilding. The reason why, when I spoke to some of the execs of the trade magazines here in the New York, said that the physiques that are there are just not attractive to the gay community. So we all know that the complaint has been for years that the stomachs are too big.
We all got involved in bodybuilding at one time because we all wanted to have a nice V-shaped physique. You are looking for wide shoulders, and V-Shape down to a tight waist, then thighs flaring out a little out, calves flaring out, the legs looking nice, and you have a nice physique that you are happy with, and it makes you better athletes in whatever sport you want to compete with, and women & men find you sexual attractive. The big stomachs are not doing it. There is more muscle on these physiques than ever before. If you look at them part by part, then some of these parts are amazing. But when you put the physiques all together, the physique does not look attractive at all. There are not that many women that find this type of physique attractive and they are dropping away. There are no longer young people coming to the shows. There are many problems. We are going to try to address these problems with our events. People can question, people can criticize, and people can have their opinion."- Wayne De Millia

[kellynnfitness]

Anyone interested in this show contact james@xtreme-usa.com or james@biopharmnutrition.com

Any females interestedcontact me: kellynnfitness@yahoo.com

[Mike]

I didn't think PDI had a women's division? What is the contact info for?

[windycitystrength]

Hey all,
I'm actually good friends with Wayne and I can tell you certainty that there are unfortunately no plans for any women's contests in PDI.
Jay

[Cas]

To Ricard,

Dude, If this new idea Wayne D. has doesn't include women, as WindyCityStrength points out, then your posting the info on it seems pointless to a women's bodybuilding forum. I don't mean to rag on ya for
bringing it up, it's just that it probably doesn't belong here.

[Harry The Hat]

Actually, what Wayne is saying is that he has no plans at present for a new woman's pro division. That may change, depending on the level of success of the PDI.

You see, Wayne's theory is that bodybuilding has being going down the wrong track for the past ten years. The GH guts, the lack of aesthetics. By bringing new judging criteria, having more entertaining shows etc, I think he believes he can bring people to shows who haven't gone before or haven't attended one in a long time.

This has obvious relevance for FBBing. Strangely, people on both sides of the sport tend to see the other side as not connected. But all the things that have been said about FBBing in recent years - they've gone too far, they're not marketable - are also being said about MBBing. The same trends are evident in both.

If DeMelia can re-invent men's bodybuilding and make a big success of it, he can apply the same formula to women's bodybuilding. And hell, if he doesn't bother, then it's open to someone on the women's side of the sport to apply the successful principles to FBBing. I hope DeMelia makes a success of it. At the very least, people should be following what happens and seeing what works and doesn't work. Fresh thinking in bodybuilding - marketing, judging, organization etc - is always welcome and can benefit women's bodybuilding in the long run.

[Mike]

Excelleent summary. For any clarification, check here for an audio interview with Wayne on his plans:

http://www.musclemayhem.com/podcasts/

[MoreMuscles]

I had high hopes, but then I listened to all 70 mins of the podcast. When asked if he has any plans to include FBB, Wayne DeMilia says flatly, "No", and then goes on to say that FBB was just a fluke in the 80's after the popularity of Pumping Iron2. He even had some derogatory things to say about figure competitors. He said, "well, you could put on a show just for FBB, but then you'd just attract men who like those kind of women, and you know what I'm talking about..." #@!%$#!!

I hoped that he was open to including FBB if the PDI model flourishes, but everything he says on the interview seems to contraindicate that.

That sounds pretty clueless to me.
Women pumping iron is real, beautiful, and unstoppable-- a huge untapped potential.

Anyone here (i.e. Kellylynnfitness), please tell me that things are different!

[CalJoe]

I am not surprised by this news. The only reason the NPC has women's bodybuilding is to collect their membership dues and entry fees, not because they have any interest in promoting the sport or it's athletes.

[Echo]

...... The only reason the NPC has women's bodybuilding is to collect their membership dues and entry fees, not because they have any interest in promoting the sport or it's athletes.

Thank you, CalJoe, for succinctly "telling it the way it is." I invite comments on my thread "When Pigs Fly." Please check it out.

[ricard]

You see, Wayne's theory is that bodybuilding has being going down the wrong track for the past ten years. The GH guts, the lack of aesthetics. By bringing new judging criteria, having more entertaining shows etc, I think he believes he can bring people to shows who haven't gone before or haven't attended one in a long time.

This has obvious relevance for FBBing. Strangely, people on both sides of the sport tend to see the other side as not connected. But all the things that have been said about FBBing in recent years - they've gone too far, they're not marketable - are also being said about MBBing. The same trends are evident in both.

If DeMelia can re-invent men's bodybuilding and make a big success of it, he can apply the same formula to women's bodybuilding. And hell, if he doesn't bother, then it's open to someone on the women's side of the sport to apply the successful principles to FBBing. I hope DeMelia makes a success of it. At the very least, people should be following what happens and seeing what works and doesn't work. Fresh thinking in bodybuilding - marketing, judging, organization etc - is always welcome and can benefit women's bodybuilding in the long run.
Thank God someone gets it.
Just like interest in mens tennis affects interest in womens tennis I believe there are similarities between FBB and MBB. Using myself as a example, I have lost interest in MBB because of the judging criteria, GH guts etc. Thus I go to less shows especially if it involves travelling, thus I also do not attend the womens shows (fitness or FBB), which would typically be held the night before. So that is less bums in seats ..less money to go round.
As for Cas, how about you spend some more time on the forum before YOU tell people what to post and not to post. OK
Ricard

[CalJoe]

Actually, what Wayne is saying is that he has no plans at present for a new woman's pro division. That may change, depending on the level of success of the PDI.

You see, Wayne's theory is that bodybuilding has being going down the wrong track for the past ten years. The GH guts, the lack of aesthetics. By bringing new judging criteria, having more entertaining shows etc, I think he believes he can bring people to shows who haven't gone before or haven't attended one in a long time.

This has obvious relevance for FBBing. Strangely, people on both sides of the sport tend to see the other side as not connected. But all the things that have been said about FBBing in recent years - they've gone too far, they're not marketable - are also being said about MBBing. The same trends are evident in both.

If DeMelia can re-invent men's bodybuilding and make a big success of it, he can apply the same formula to women's bodybuilding. And hell, if he doesn't bother, then it's open to someone on the women's side of the sport to apply the successful principles to FBBing. I hope DeMelia makes a success of it. At the very least, people should be following what happens and seeing what works and doesn't work. Fresh thinking in bodybuilding - marketing, judging, organization etc - is always welcome and can benefit women's bodybuilding in the long run.
There are elements of your post I agree with. There are also parts of your posts that I find to be hopeful optimism that unfortunately doesn't have the track record to actually happen. Yes, it is possible that if DeMilla's "possible" venture to reinvent women's bb doesn't work someone else might be enlightened enough to try the same thing. However, I really don't feel that DeMilla will really ever try to get women's bb off the ground as an alternative to the IFBB. I think he will also find it quite challenging to reinvent the spectacle that has become men's professional bb. I agree with you that the days of aesthetic physiques void of bloated growth guts and copious amounts of synthol are a thing of the past, and it would be nice to see someone try to bring that back. That being said, I believe that the majority of the paying public want to see bb'ers with freaky, freaky size (at least on the men's side of the coin). I think Demilla will find his task quite challenging.

[BigMike]

There are elements of your post I agree with. There are also parts of your posts that I find to be hopeful optimism that unfortunately doesn't have the track record to actually happen. Yes, it is possible that if DeMilla's "possible" venture to reinvent women's bb doesn't work someone else might be enlightened enough to try the same thing. However, I really don't feel that DeMilla will really ever try to get women's bb off the ground as an alternative to the IFBB. I think he will also find it quite challenging to reinvent the spectacle that has become men's professional bb. I agree with you that the days of aesthetic physiques void of bloated growth guts and copious amounts of synthol are a thing of the past, and it would be nice to see someone try to bring that back. That being said, I believe that the majority of the paying public want to see bb'ers with freaky, freaky size (at least on the men's side of the coin). I think Demilla will find his task quite challenging.

Joe,

I agree with you as well on some points. However, regarding the PDI thing and it being challenging for Demilla, I must disagree. You have to remember that there is a large portion of the public that like muscle mass on men but are tired of seeing the GH guts or synthol site injects. That look is just not attainable by the average blow whom wants to go hit the steel in the gym. People look at mens bodybuilding as simply a rampage of drug use going on. And come on we both know what goes on. I myself compete and have trained many of both pro female athletes in FBB and mens national level BB athletes. I have also been a NPC judge for several years. So in fact I do know the behind the scenes pretty well and I believe from what I know Demilla is right on the money for bringing in a more genetically pleasing physique. There is a day coming of the Coleman look that will not be awarded.

[BigMike]

I am not surprised by this news. The only reason the NPC has women's bodybuilding is to collect their membership dues and entry fees, not because they have any interest in promoting the sport or it's athletes.

Do you really believe this?? I must object to your views of the NPC. I must also ask why would you discredit an organization that continues to support and offer shows for FBB to enter, even through all the negative issues that recently were posted/said about female bodybuilding? I happen to know you are a wall fly at many bay area shows offering woman your assistance to train them or offer diet information. I have also read many of your posts on here claiming you worked with this woman or that woman. Well I will say I have judged your ex girlfriend Angie on stage where she looked incredible! You even came to me and asked how could she improve and thanked the NPC for still having womans FBB.

So here you are now bashing the NPC whom has stood true to continuing to have FBB at there shows. If your going to be a fan of FBB then be a fan and dont bash the ONLY non pro organization that promotes the beauty of female muscle.

[Harry The Hat]

Welcome BigMike! At the risk of attempting to speak for other people, I believe that part of the problem with the perception of how the NPC regards women's bodybuilding is the lack of coverage it affords them in the NPC News magazine. Living in Europe, getting a copy of the mag would prove impossible, but I've read a number of posts on different boards that say FBBs get little coverage for their shows in the official house magazine.

To try to get some idea of whether this was true or not, I went to NPC News Online. FBBs feature prominently on the homepage, but I couldn't find single article on one within the site.

Possibly more than anything, this gives the impression of an organization that's taking $75 membership fees from FBBs (is it extra to enter a show?) and not getting much back in return. It may not be true, but I believe that's the perception.

[Cas]

Ricard,

WHOA WHOA WHOA! whats with the hostility bub? I didn't think I was being mean towards you. Initally, yeah I thought your post was indeed irrelevant but in hindsight, it wasn't. I APOLOGIZE!!!!!! take a 'chill pill' and lets try to get along, sheesh! And as for your little comment about my not spending enough time on the forums? Welllll, I only post when I (right OR wrong) have an opinion on a given topic, not necessarily on a daily basis, OK?

[CalJoe]

Do you really believe this?? I must object to your views of the NPC. I must also ask why would you discredit an organization that continues to support and offer shows for FBB to enter, even through all the negative issues that recently were posted/said about female bodybuilding? I happen to know you are a wall fly at many bay area shows offering woman your assistance to train them or offer diet information. I have also read many of your posts on here claiming you worked with this woman or that woman. Well I will say I have judged your ex girlfriend Angie on stage where she looked incredible! You even came to me and asked how could she improve and thanked the NPC for still having womans FBB.

So here you are now bashing the NPC whom has stood true to continuing to have FBB at there shows. If your going to be a fan of FBB then be a fan and dont bash the ONLY non pro organization that promotes the beauty of female muscle.
To answer your question: yes I do. The failure of the NPC to actively promote their female athletes is a generally known fact in the industry. All you have to do is look at the NPC News, particularly the section entitled "Around the NPC", to see what I'm talking about. So what of my past regarding contest preparation? It means that I've been around the sport for a while, and have a pretty good overall ideal of what is going on. I have never mentioned anyone I didn't work with, so I don't know what you're getting at by refrerring to posts to this effect. I may have asked you how Angie could improve, but I really severely doubt I would have ever mentioned something along the lines of "thanking the NPC". You must be imagining this, and anyone who knows me well enough will echo my sentiments on the NPC.

The NPC continues to hold women's bb shows, this is true. So what? If you're going to collect entry fees and NPC membership dues, you better be holding shows right? Where is the promotion of female athletes, where is anything that even approaches equal coverage for women bodybuilders as opposed to male bodybuilders, women's fitness athletes, and women's figure competitors?

Again Mike, anyone who knows me will tell you how much I truly love the sport of women's bodybuilding. They will also tell you the lack of regard I have for the organization that runs the amateur ranks. The IFBB is not too far behind either, as is evidenced by there being 14 shows for figure/fitness this year, as opposed to only 4 for women's bodybuilding.

[CalJoe]

Joe,

I agree with you as well on some points. However, regarding the PDI thing and it being challenging for Demilla, I must disagree. You have to remember that there is a large portion of the public that like muscle mass on men but are tired of seeing the GH guts or synthol site injects. That look is just not attainable by the average blow whom wants to go hit the steel in the gym. People look at mens bodybuilding as simply a rampage of drug use going on. And come on we both know what goes on. I myself compete and have trained many of both pro female athletes in FBB and mens national level BB athletes. I have also been a NPC judge for several years. So in fact I do know the behind the scenes pretty well and I believe from what I know Demilla is right on the money for bringing in a more genetically pleasing physique. There is a day coming of the Coleman look that will not be awarded.
Mike, Overall I agree with this post you've made. I must say, however, that the non-bloated, GH gut look that some of the smaller male pros have is quite unattainable as well. There is no doubt that the men's side of the sport is a full blown pharmaceutical display gone completely off the tracks. That being said, and while being in complete agreement about what I think we would both like to see, I must say that I believe it is wishful thinking that the Demilla experiement will overtake the popularity of the men's side of the sport as conducted by the IFBB. People love to see these freakly guys. I prefer to see a Lee Labrada type physique to a Ronnie Coleman physique, but I cannot say that about the average guy that spends $600.00 on the VIP package at the Olympia.

[Echo]

There is a day coming of the Coleman look that will not be awarded.

That day may come later this year (Olympia 2006) if BSN does not throw money around like they did last year. Just ask your "behind the scenes" friends for the behind the scenes" story.

[BigMike]

To answer your question: yes I do. The failure of the NPC to actively promote their female athletes is a generally known fact in the industry. All you have to do is look at the NPC News, particularly the section entitled "Around the NPC", to see what I'm talking about. So what of my past regarding contest preparation? It means that I've been around the sport for a while, and have a pretty good overall ideal of what is going on. I have never mentioned anyone I didn't work with, so I don't know what you're getting at by refrerring to posts to this effect. I may have asked you how Angie could improve, but I really severely doubt I would have ever mentioned something along the lines of "thanking the NPC". You must be imagining this, and anyone who knows me well enough will echo my sentiments on the NPC.

The NPC continues to hold women's bb shows, this is true. So what? If you're going to collect entry fees and NPC membership dues, you better be holding shows right? Where is the promotion of female athletes, where is anything that even approaches equal coverage for women bodybuilders as opposed to male bodybuilders, women's fitness athletes, and women's figure competitors?
Again Mike, anyone who knows me will tell you how much I truly love the sport of women's bodybuilding. They will also tell you the lack of regard I have for the organization that runs the amateur ranks. The IFBB is not too far behind either, as is evidenced by there being 14 shows for figure/fitness this year, as opposed to only 4 for women's bodybuilding.


Joe, you must not understand what I am explaining to you. I DO agree that the NPC does not cover or promote FBB like they should. This has been happening for years and became increasingly worse after the Ms. O in 2004. (Inside reasons and no need for me to go into) I am not disagreeing with you regarding the promotion being up to par with the mens promotitive state. What I am explaining to you is that at least the NON PROFESSIONAL woman have an arena to compete in.
You say you are a avid woman's BB fan. I do believe this. But in your reply to me you quote, "The NPC continues to hold women's bb shows, this is true. So what?" This statement shows how naive you are Joe. How could you say SO WHAT to the ONLY organization that offers Non Professional BB shows for woman??? I ask you what would the woman do at that point?? Do you have a smart and savy answer to that one??
What I am getting at is that YES WE ALL KNOW FBB IS NOT PROMOTED LIKE IT SHOULD BE!! But why would you want to rant and rave and bash a organization that is the ONLY participating group as a whole that is still offering woman to compete and potentially go pro??? THIS IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO EXPLAIN!
So we all know your argument of non promotion of FBB is valid both on the NPC and IFBB side. But that is another huge topic. What I am explaining is you may criticize the NPC, complain of high dues, and non promotion. BUT also remember if the NPC stopped offering FBB at there shows what would happen then to the future of the sport.
You MUST always think on a higher level Joe before coming back with your remarks. There would be NO FUTURE for the female IFBB if the NPC stopped offering amatuer shows??? Have you thought of this???

[CalJoe]

Joe, you must not understand what I am explaining to you. I DO agree that the NPC does not cover or promote FBB like they should. This has been happening for years and became increasingly worse after the Ms. O in 2004. (Inside reasons and no need for me to go into) I am not disagreeing with you regarding the promotion being up to par with the mens promotitive state. What I am explaining to you is that at least the NON PROFESSIONAL woman have an arena to compete in.
You say you are a avid woman's BB fan. I do believe this. But in your reply to me you quote, "The NPC continues to hold women's bb shows, this is true. So what?" This statement shows how naive you are Joe. How could you say SO WHAT to the ONLY organization that offers Non Professional BB shows for woman??? I ask you what would the woman do at that point?? Do you have a smart and savy answer to that one??
What I am getting at is that YES WE ALL KNOW FBB IS NOT PROMOTED LIKE IT SHOULD BE!! But why would you want to rant and rave and bash a organization that is the ONLY participating group as a whole that is still offering woman to compete and potentially go pro??? THIS IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO EXPLAIN!
So we all know your argument of non promotion of FBB is valid both on the NPC and IFBB side. But that is another huge topic. What I am explaining is you may criticize the NPC, complain of high dues, and non promotion. BUT also remember if the NPC stopped offering FBB at there shows what would happen then to the future of the sport.
You MUST always think on a higher level Joe before coming back with your remarks. There would be NO FUTURE for the female IFBB if the NPC stopped offering amatuer shows??? Have you thought of this???
I understand where you're coming from regarding the fact that the NPC is the only sanctioning body that amateur women can compete in order to obtain pro cards. I'm also thankful that you're making the point regarding the failure of the NPC when it comes to promoting these same amateur athletes. What I am saying is that this same failure is a clear illustration of the lack of interest the NPC has in its' women athletes. Providing a competetive stage is a necessity if you're going to collect membership dues. They are not holding these pro-qualifiers because they actually care about these women athletes, because if they did they would not treat them unequally in their very own publication. Providing a competition stage doesn't equate to caring about your athletes. It is the least they can do for the dues they collect, and to be honest, it's not enough. Besides, the NPC would probably treat their athletes rather harshly if there was a rival sanctioning body.

[Echo]

.....You MUST always think on a higher level Joe before coming back with your remarks. There would be NO FUTURE for the female IFBB if the NPC stopped offering amatuer shows??? Have you thought of this???

Why don't you think about this: The NPC is structured as a non-profit, amateur sports organization that enjoys an exemption from federal income taxes. If the NPC suddenly dropped Women's competititions, thus adopting a blatantly discriminatory policy, don't you think that the potential fall-out from such a move might be used to threaten the NPC's tax-exempt status pursuant to the Guidelines set forth in federal law, and the tax code, for amateur sports organizations?

The NPC is not an altruistic organization. The bottom line with the NPC has been, still is, and always will be be about one thing ......money. Money that travels in one direction....to Pittsburgh.

[George]

I had high hopes, but then I listened to all 70 mins of the podcast. When asked if he has any plans to include FBB, Wayne DeMilia says flatly, "No", and then goes on to say that FBB was just a fluke in the 80's after the popularity of Pumping Iron2. He even had some derogatory things to say about figure competitors. He said, "well, you could put on a show just for FBB, but then you'd just attract men who like those kind of women, and you know what I'm talking about..." #@!%$#!!

I hoped that he was open to including FBB if the PDI model flourishes, but everything he says on the interview seems to contraindicate that.

That sounds pretty clueless to me.
Women pumping iron is real, beautiful, and unstoppable-- a huge untapped potential.

Anyone here (i.e. Kellylynnfitness), please tell me that things are different!
I've talked to Wayne several times in the last 2 wks. Yes it's true that he "presently" doesn't have plans for including the women. But...and this is a pretty good sign...he did say "who knows...things can change" That being said....Everytime I've talked to him I'm in there plugging away for the women...I think that once he gets the mens side of the PDI going...there will be a change...and I think he will consider including the women somehow. There are a lot of women competitors...FBBs, fitness, and figure...put them all together and that's a lot of athletes...with a lot of "followers/fans"...which means ticket sales. Additionally, Wayne won't have the same media restrictions as the other organizations...why?.....because he knows the media (PPV,TV, and the Internet) is what's going to keep this sport alive...not the mags....so....for the sake of all the women athletes...let's give Wayne our support and make sure the men are successful....the women's time will come...I feel that in my bones....and I'm not one to daydream....

[MoreMuscles]

Well, that's sounds good, and I hope you're right. It will be interesting to see what happens with PDI.